Oil temp gauge

[WBofTN]

I'm no engineer, but I'm still not sold on this thermostat thing.
To me your engine temp is "just that". If your water temp is 190, then
your oil (as it curculates thru your block) should be close to the same temp.
Which tells me that the oil is getting hot enough to "burn the impurities"
out of it. Plus I change my oil twice a year anyway with very few miles.
My new Dodge truck has an oil cooler - I dont see a thermostat nor am I
aware it has one and Dodge suggest 6k mile oil changes.
All that being said: I've been wrong plenty of times before and will most
likely be wrong again in the future - So I'm all ears.
WB


'93 Unique 427/351W/4sp

[Brent]

I think we are making a mountain out of a mole hill on this one.

The most crucial time in the lubrication of an engine is start up and the first few seconds of running. A oil pre heater of some sort, either a pad on the bottom of the oil pan or a temp rod plugged in proir to starting to get the oil up to operating temp. would be wise. (about 50.00) As for the oil thermostadt. I do not feel excess moisture in the oil will occur. If you feel that it does the next time you change your oil send some off to a lab for testing. We sent our oil off 2-3 times a year to diagnose alcohol dilusion. For those of you that drive your Cobra in the snow,let is sit,drive it in the snow,let it sit,drive it in the snow,etc,etc, you might think about it. Other than that??????

There are alot of Cobras out there with 10K plus miles on them that have the same cooler,lines,adapter,remote mount, etc. as we do.

As for the CC opinions, there are alot of VERY smart people in there,however,there are alot of people that want to turn their Cobras into exibition vehicles with 600 HP etc. It takes a good common sense filter to run all of the opinions through before making a decision. It also seems that other people are always willing to push you to spend your $$$$$$$$$$.

Just a thought
Brent

[clayfoushee]

Yeah, Trent's plumbing solution is certainly elegant, but I continue to wonder if the oil thermo. is necessary. One of our CACC guys, who's also a talented racer and mechanic has a CSX 4000, with a side-oiler and no thermo. He runs with a piece carbon fiber over the cooler, similar to my piece of (now fiberglassed) cardboard in the picture I posted somewhere above.

Clay

Unique 9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[clayfoushee]

OK guys....how about a simple diagnosis? I just bought a battery-powered laser temp gauge pretty cheap from Pep Boys. Lee Dahmer (who I mentioned previously builds Uniques under license from the Weavers), doesn't run an oil thermo. in his 428, but measures the temp. on the hose exiting the block before the oil filter. That is the only true indication of the REAL operating temp of the oil.

Rain threatening here, so I won't test it today, but let's find out what those temps really are.

Clay

Unique 9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Jim Harding]

Sounds like a plan Clay..... since I'm right down the street from you, you can do me on your way down south and points west on your journey to take care of the rest of the guys on this forum................ that is your plan ..... right????? :-)

Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004

[clayfoushee]

LOL.....well not exactly Jim, but you can borrow my gauge anytime!!!! How's your daughter doing?

Clay

Unique 9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Jim Harding]

quote:Originally posted by clayfoushee

How's your daughter doing?

Clay... she went back to Georgia! That's where her 'friend' base is, and she said she had a lead on a job down there. Hope she finds something soon..... her mother worries about her baby!!!

- Jim -

Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004

[clayfoushee]

Enjoyed meeting her.....very nice girl. I hope things work out well, and tell her to give me a shout if she wants to contact my sister-in-law in Augusta.

Clay

Unique 9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Okiesnake]

WBofTN, My guess your Dodge Truck’s oil cooler it is most likely an automatic transmission fluid cooler that is often used when towing.
Will not having an oil thermostat destroy you engine, No. I agree that we should always take free advice with a big grain of salt. However, for me, when certain individuals like Bob Putnam of ERA talk, I listen. And Bob says “use a thermostat”.
If I only drove my car in the summertime, I wouldn’t be as concerned. But for me and “my world” - There are times when I get the itch and even though its only in the lower 50’s, I go out. There are other times that life gets busy and I may not drive the car in 3 weeks. There are times when I push to car hard and I worry about the G-forces not allowing oil to reach the oil pick up.
So for me and “my world” I am going to add the thermostat for piece of mind and the fact that for less than ½ of 1 percent of the cost of my car, it’s worth it. I don’t have to bother to put the oil cooler cover on and off. The thermostat upgrade doesn’t even require draining the oil and I estimate it will take no more than an hour or two to complete. (Maybe a little messy).
The Accusump - I like the idea of the pre-oiler when I fire up the motor when it has set for 3 weeks. The Accusump also insures oil pressure even under extreme hard cornering. Installation of the Accusump will be a little more challenging but I like the challenge.
Clay, If you do decide to add the oil thermostat, I would mount the thermostat in front of your remote oil filter. Disconnect the return line going into the remote adapter and shorten it and put it into the thermostat. Remove the other line to the oil cooler from the remote oil filter and hook it up to the thermostat. Re-use part of the shortened line for a hose from the thermostat to the filter. (hopefully I said that right).

[clayfoushee]

Trent, I didn't say I wasn't doing it....hey I'm great at spending more money....just that I wanted to experiment to see what the oil temps really are, and then make a decision. My laser-aimed temp. device will answer the question, definitely, once I have a chance (snow tomorrow......#$*#$*!!) to test it under normal conditions, with and without that cover. BTW, that cover with velco anchors takes about 3.5 seconds to put on and less to take off (if I could bend over faster, it would be quicker...LOL) The cardboard was free, and I had the fiberglass, epoxy and paint lying around anyway....what the heck.

Your advice and research in this and other areas have been invaluable. As I said several months ago, "when Okie speaks, I listen." I just wonder why so many, including CSX cars, don't think it's necessary? And, why are the Weavers silent on this? Maybe they just don't want to get into the business of giving people engine advice.....perhaps understandable. To me, these were questions worth pondering. Obviously, installing it isn't going to hurt anything and may offer some measure of protection under certain conditions, except of, of course, when the thermo. malfunctions and decides to NOT open during an autocross in the middle of July.

Let me clarify your suggestion if I decide to install it. When you say "return line into the remote adapter" you mean the hot oil feed hose from the block into the filter....right? So I disconnect both lines to and from the filter, and connect them to the thermostat. Then I run new lines from the thermo. to the filter. Simple enough. Maybe I don't understand, YET, which of the 4 hoses go into which of the 4 openings in the thermo or where the valve is, but wouldn't that shut off oil flow to the filter when closed?

Clay

Unique 9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Okiesnake]

Clay,
Currently your oil cooling system makes one big loop (out of the engine – through the oil filter - through the oil cooler and back to the engine).
After the thermostat think of it as one small loop when its below 180 degrees (out of the engine - through the oil filter - through the thermostat and back to the engine), and a big loop when its above 180degrees (out of the engine - through the oil filter –through one of the thermostat passages -through the oil cooler, through the other one of the thermostat passages and back to the engine). As to what passage is what, would be dependent upon the manufacturer and hopefully it is documented. If it is not documented then heating up the thermostat will revel the answer.
It seams to me that most manufacturers such as Unique don't really seam to give a whole lot of input besides headers and engine mounts when it comes to motor issues. There are so many variables and they probably don't want everyone coming them as motor experts. They don't build motors. They don’t make any money on motors and have no profit in it to be everyone’s go to guys.

[clayfoushee]

Trent, thanks again for taking the time to explain. I understand perfectly well the routing of the oil system plumbing as currently configured. It's beautifully simple even with the cooler and remote filter. I was just trying to figure out the inflows and outflows of that oil thermo, and whether it requires major re-routing of the lines. The Canton people are supposed to fax me their installation instructions. I'm sure it will be perfectly clear at that point.....aren't those instructions always clear as mud.....just like the assembly manual......LOL?

Clay

Unique 9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[clayfoushee]

Trent, by happenstance, just after I wrote the above, I ran across this on CC:

Hi Joe:
Here is what I have. I have what is known as a "sandwhich" adaptor, which fits in between the filter and the filter housing.
The two AN lines and fittings come off of the sandwich and go to the oiler cooler.

There are two types of sandwich adaptors. One with a thermostatic switch and one without. I think you may want one with the theromostatic switch in it. It limits oil to the cooler until the oil achieves a specific temperature.

Another way of doing this is to use the non switch sandwich and run a thermostatic valve switch in-line to the cooler.

Summit has a sandwich adaptor without the thermostat on page 130 of their new Jan-Feb catalog as part number TRD-1313 for Ford V8.

In the Jegs catalog, they list Perma-Cool Remote Oil Thermostats which fit inline between the cooler and the sandwich.

I cannot find a listing for the Sandwich with the integrated thermostat at this time. Probably a call to Doug Herbert, or Jegs or Summit or Danbury Competition Engines would get you a solution. It is possible that even ERA has these in stock.

Let me know what you find out OK?


__________________
Art in CT
See My Cobra Bibliography at http://members.aol.com/necobraclub/index.htm

Total Quality Control: Do It Right The Frist Time!

More to cogitate on, but that in-line thermo. sounds a heckofalot simpler!

Clay

Unique 9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Okiesnake]

I saw that post too. I'm not sure how well the thermostat sandwich adaptor would fit on the Unique 427SC, at least with a 351W. There is so liitle room where the filter goes and the frame. You can have a real short filter (I believe Unique gives the part# in the assembly manual)and maybe there is also enough room for the thermostat sandwich adaptor. However, there is definately NOT enough room for a full size filter or a large performance filter such as the Motocraft FL-HP (even without the thermostat sandwich adaptor). Is there more room for the filter on a BB?

[clayfoushee]

Doubt it Trent.....same filter you're running, forget about the sandwich, with integrated thermo. I was more interested in the "in-line" thermo. which sounded to me like a simple (one line in and one line out ) valve which fits between the sandwich and the outflow line to the cooler. Perhaps it's the same thing you're looking at. If so, "never mind." Will try to track it down tomorrow.

Spending way too much time on this, but fortunately I'm still on vacation, so I'm doing this instead of lying on the beach somewhere....am I demented or what?

Clay

Unique 9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Okiesnake]

Clay,
So were you thinking about running the integrated thermo sandwich plate at the remote oil filter? That would work! First just route the oil lines, bypassing the oil cooler, (out of the motor - to the remote oil filter - back to the motor). Then screw on the integrated thermo sandwich plate, hook up the oil cooler lines to the integrated thermo sandwich plate! How much is the integrated thermo sandwich plate?
Let's not bring up the demented thing up again. I'm afraid it hits a little too close to home for me!

[clayfoushee]

Trent, no, actually the opposite. I said "forget about the sandwich adaptor," never seen it, and the CC poster I pasted in my note didn't know where to find it either. I was looking for an easier in-line alternative. Never mind.....gonna check those temps with my cover and worry about it later......

Clay

Unique 9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD