Ride Height - Bad Springs???

[Silk]

This past weekend I decided to readjust my ride height - the front end sits a bit lower than I'd like, and the front left particularly. Well, after adjusting the front left coil over all the way out, I still can't raise the fender lip above the level of the tire! [?] Right side shock is just beyond the middle of the adjustment range, and the fender is well above the tire. I'm assuming this indicates a weak spring?

So, anyone have any specs on new springs? Length? Spring rates (I'm thinking 250 front, 350 rear)? Manufacturer or part #s?

Might do shocks at the same time. Again, can anyone give me the specs - (extended length, compressed length, etc.) and manufacturers? Anyone using Koni? Other?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Yours in lowriding Cobras,



Gary
Unique FIA 351W

[WBofTN]

Gary:
I had the same problem with one of my front springs - It would not hold
the ride height. I contacted carrera (sp?) and they shipped me a new spring (no charge). All they asked was to return the old spring once the new one was installed.
Wes

'93 Unique 427/351W/4sp

[eliminator]

Gary,

Save yourself alot of time and trouble, call Maurice on this one, he can help you troubleshoot the problem.

Rick
#4279405

[Russ Dickey]

Not to highjack this thread, but my question is how this affects handling. I've got the EXACT same problem. My left front is 1.5" lower than the right. If I crank up the collar that the left front spring sits on, which should raise the body height, will it screw up the way the car handles???

Thanks,

Russ

Unique 289FIA - Viking Blue

[spd4me]

My FIA is the same way. The driver side is 1" to 11/4" lower than pass side. I've talked to Maurice and he said that the fender flares are different from one side to the other. You can look at it from the front and see it. I left the 10" 325 lb. spring on the pass side and adjusted all the way down. I got a 11" 300 lb. spring and put on drive side and adjusted up about 1 1/2" and it raised the fender to just the top of tire. Carrera doesn't make the 11" springs any more. Only 10" and 12". I got a 12" and there is no way to get on unless you remove the "A" arm. So I exchanged it for a 10" 500 lb. and got two spacers to fit in it. I'm going to use the two spacers with the 11" spring first and see what it does.

[Silk]

Russ,

My understanding is that adjusting the collar just affects ride height - it does not affect the spring rate, so should not change your handling (although it might affect alignment somewhat).

Gary
Unique FIA 351W

[spd4me]

Something else. Carrera doesn't make the adjustable (3 settings)shocks any more and I've checked with all the dealer around the country trying to find one. I've heard that QA1 may be buying them out.

[gasman]

My LF shock is completely compressed with the RF almost completely extended. The car is clearly not aligned properly. I realize what you do on the rear affects the opposite corner. We discovered two RR spacers above the shock tower on the rear of my car while it was on the rack at Homecoming. We summized the left front was compressed to compensate for the spacers. Butch Capps and Alan suggested removing those ASAP. The problem is, I don't know why they were ever installed in the first place but have to wonder after reading this thread if it was a compensation adjustment for the LF ride height. This is high on my list of fixes before next years homecoming. I would welcome comments on this.

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

[Russ Dickey]

quote:Originally posted by spd4me

My FIA is the same way. The driver side is 1" to 11/4" lower than pass side. I've talked to Maurice and he said that the fender flares are different from one side to the other. You can look at it from the front and see it. I left the 10" 325 lb. spring on the pass side and adjusted all the way down. I got a 11" 300 lb. spring and put on drive side and adjusted up about 1 1/2" and it raised the fender to just the top of tire. Carrera doesn't make the 11" springs any more. Only 10" and 12". I got a 12" and there is no way to get on unless you remove the "A" arm. So I exchanged it for a 10" 500 lb. and got two spacers to fit in it. I'm going to use the two spacers with the 11" spring first and see what it does.

This is good info. I've heard that that many of the cars fender flares were off a bit, which may be making my "lean" appear worse, but my problem is definitely more than that. When the car is on level ground, and you stand directly in front or behind my car, you can visibly tell that it's sitting lower on the driver side. Now that I know it won't affect the handling, I'll try messing with spring height tomorrow nite.

Unique 289FIA - Viking Blue

[ralphscott]

Steve, My guess is that in hard cornering the tire in the rear was rubbing the inside of the rear flare. So the owner or builder put in the spacers to provide increased clearance (body to tire)to solve the problem but in doing so caused the difference in front heights that led to the substantially different shock adjustment. I had the problem in hard cornering and put in the adjustable shock system 4 adjustable carrerras in the rear. Each spring rating is 300# Id check out your rear wheel wells and tire edges if if there are any wear points.

Ralph

[TurnpikeBoy]

Well.....

Preload in the spring will DEFINATELY affect handling - in some respects, more than changing damping rates. It will, of course, also affect ride height, but keep in mind just why you have springs to begin with. They're there to keep the car in the air.

STOP using the fenderwells to judge where you are. Measure each coilover from spring seat to spring seat and set them equal; adjust each equally to raise/lower the ride height. Do ALL your meaurements from frame points to a flat, level floor to verify your adjustments. If adjustments after this (to make the car appear level)cause big differences in frame height I suggest you invest in some GOOD springs, like Hypercoils - it is entirely possible you have crapped-out springs.

Springs control ride height - they also control roll and rate of shock rebound. Length of spring, spring rate, and preload all affect all of those issues. Go to Koni's website and you will find very, very useful info on just how much spring you will need; unsprung weight, sprung weight, movement ranges, motion ranges, and so forth. Unless you are a chassis expert you need to be aware there is trial and error involved here...and I suspect even if you are an expert the same applies. This can get involved in a hurry - progressive rates, booster coils, etc. all can get confusing.

Anyway. This area will keep you scratching your head for a while to come, and if you're serious, will keep the spring mfgrs. in a bit of cash too. Tradeoffs abound - stiff springs control roll well, but ride like hell. Soft springs do the opposite. Where do I go? - depends on what you want. If appearance is the ticket, consider shimming the body SOME (not lots)to get it closer. But different preloads on all four springs is gonna make for some strange handling characteristics.

Yeehah

[ralphscott]

Good advice from TurnpikeBoy. May I add that it is also a good thing to make sure your sway bars are proprerly aligned so that the bolts at the ends of the bars slide easily in and out of he heim joints. (Good to check and adjust after alignments and suspension changes) If you do this make sure that the car has been driven and not jacked up just prior to the adjustment as the shocks and chassis and body need to be in a neutral position. Do the alignment with the car and body in normal driving position. It is a tough for us older guys but it does need to be done.

Ralph

[Silk]

So I'm still scratching my head . . . . . . . would the best solution for a low corner be a longer spring; a higher spring rate (with probable handling issues); both??? What are you throughts?

Gary
Unique FIA 351W

[TurnpikeBoy]

Gary, since you've adjusted the springs all the way out, first thing to do is to get new springs. Jack the car to where you want ride ht. to be; measure the distance between shock mount points; see how much spring you can get in (i.e., 8" or 10")while still leaving room for adjustment on the shock body. Now, figure out just how much weight sits on each corner of the car. Let's say the car is 2400 lbs. with a 45%F / 55%R balance split; 2400 lbs x 45% = 1080 lbs; divided by 2 = 540 lbs / wheel. If you want zero roll, go to a 500 or 525 spring - just be ready for a backbreaker ride. Better would be a 300 or 325 spring; with a touch of preload ride ht. will be right and roll will be reasonable.

Much, much more here than I can elaborate on. Getting it right will take time and effort...don't be misled on that. Shocks will play a very important part, too - and that's another whole story.

Yeehah

[Silk]

Turnpike,

Thanks for your suggestions. I think I'll attack the problem along those lines - see how it shapes up. Sounds like I may have a nice used spring inventory in the not too distant future.

Gary
Unique FIA 351W

[gasman]

Gary, this is great information. Sounds to me like you know your way around a chassis. This may be a stupid question, but I just want to clarify, am I to understand that Carerra adjustable shocks will accept different spring heights or does changing springs require using different shocks?

Ralph, we think the reason I have two 1/4 inch shims in the RR shock tower was because the car was converted to Carerra coil over shocks. We aren't sure but Butch Capps thought that might be the reason. I can't confirm this until we remove them. And yes, removing these would lower the car but there is still plenty of adjustment left to raise it at least an inch with the coil over. Also, removing them would allow me to unload the LF.

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

[TurnpikeBoy]

Not as bad as it might seem, Gary. If you spend some time thinking about it and identify just how you want the car to react when entering or in the corners, you may not have any extra springsets at all. Compromise is everywhere.

And - you can put any spring on any coil-over shock, as long as they're big enough around (i.d.) and not too long. Need 'em long enough to have adjustment without tons of preload. Eibach or Hypercoil or ? will do just fine.

Yeehah

[ralphscott]

Steve I also went with a Carerra coil over conversion in my Lil' Cobra 9361 as I was rubbing in the rear on corners. My guess the shims were left in your car as insurance to better improve the options if he coil overs didn't work. They work great for me, so I'd dump the shims for now and get the LF unloaded. I have been a little busy but now I am prompted to measure the frame corners to see where I am. The handling right now is as good as it has ever been. My front is a little higher than most, which contributed to the rubbing in the rear. I'll check it tonight and report back.

Ralph

[ralphscott]

Steve fresh from the garage First Flares at their apex:
Ft. Flare Lft.=25-1/2 |Ft. Flare Rt.=26-5/8
Rr. Flare Lft.=27-1/2 |Rr. Flare rt.=27-3/4

Now for the Frame Front cross member corner and rear frame corners:
Ft. Lft.=7.0 |Ft. Rt.=7-5/8
Rr. Lft.=5-1/2 |Rr. Rt.=6.0

Conclusion if I drop the Ft. Rt. 1/2 It would bring things very close into numerical symmetry. I may try it but I doubt it the Cobra really handles well the way it is.

Ralph

[gasman]

Ralph, Everyone offering advice at homecoming with regard to making ride height adjustments agreed. Make extremely small adjustments and let the car settle in to the adjustment.(i.e.) not more than one turn on each corner, drop and drive. You are so close, maybe a half turn is in order. I can't wait to get started on this stuff. The garagemahal steel went up today. It should be dried in within three weeks. I'll have a place to work on this stuff soon, cannot wait!

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389