Help w/Wilwood Master Clyinder

[Jim Harding]

Last weekend coming home from Lee Dahmer's Sterling Open House, my clutch master cylinder, a Wilwood P/N 260-1304, started leaking fluid around the linkage rod boot. Managed to make the 80 mile trip home due to 75% of it being on interstates where shifting wasn't required. Got home OK, but the reservoir was almost bone dry after I parked it in the garage. Then I pushed the clutch about 6 times before it finally gave up. Lucky me..... first time I've had an issue with this car that almost left me stuck on the side of the road.

Anyone know if Wilwood makes a rebuild kit or has available replacement parts to repair this M/C? I'd hate to have to toss it out and buy a new one if it is salvageable. I sent a e-mail to Willwood tech help, but don't know how long it will take them to respond to it. Have also thought about moving up to their other M/C that I know they offer a kit for, but don't know if I have enough room between the foot well balkhead and inner fender panel to fit it in. It's an inch or more longer than the one in the car now. Will take some measurements later today to see.

Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004

[Brent]

Jim,

Wilwood did make a rebuild kit for them but no longer does. I asked why and he responded " Why would we offer a 15.00 rebuild kit for a 30.00 part?"

I replaced mine earlier this year.



Brent
4279401
Candy Apple Red/White
402 FE/Toploader/3.54

[Jim Harding]

Thanks Brent.... I've had heard similar stories about these M/C's. Thought I'd at least ask for other input from you fellers
I'll pull it out later today and do a proper autopsy

Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004

[spd4me]

Jim
When I ordered my FIA, I asked Wevers to use the smallest Wilwood master cylinders that have rebuildable kits (kit comes with a remote resevior and one that attaches to top of cylinder). I'll have to check at home to verify model and number. The problem was the line hooks into front of cylinder and there wasn't enought room between it and wheel well. The best thing to do is throw away and buy a new one.
Bob

[Jim Harding]

Yeah Bob, I received an answer from Wilwood this afternoon and they basicly said the same thing. Guess I should bite the bullet and replace all three, figuring if one has crapped out now, the others will follow.

Took the cylinder out and gave it an autopsy....... and may have another theroy as to why the hydraulic fluid turns black[:O] The piston appears to have been black anodized. About 3/4 of the anodizing on the piston "skirt" has been worn away. Will post a picture later today.....(left camera in wife's car last night and she had to work today)

Also some slop in the piston to bore clearance.... main piston is round and measures .7485". The smaller piston that the push rod presses against shows some out of round... from .7465" to .748". As near as I could check the bore, it was around .751"

And one of the seals has "made in england" embossed on it. At least it's not China

Guess I'll zip over to Summit and place my order. Don't want to miss out on the little bit of driving weather left this year

Also, the other M/C from Wilwood is P/N 260-6764 and is a good inch longer then the smaller one. Like you said, with the output port on the end, I don't think I'll be able to fit that one in there either

- Jim -

Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004

[Jim Harding]

Below is a picture of the M/C piston and the two seals. The linkage rod presses in from the right side of the photo. The smaller of the seals fits in the area that seperates the two sections of the piston. The larger seal fits in the area just to the left of the large piston section. Missing from the photo is the return spring, rod, and the seal that closes the reservoir fluid port.

You can see where the black anodize has worn off the piston sections. Why it failed? I don't have any hard parts that look too worn out or broken. The seals still look like they woud do the job, albeit the smaller looks like it was trying to roll over itself, probably because it operates mostly dry without lubrication. I see where these are made for racing applications, and where seasonal maintenance would probably call for wholesale replacement of these things. Mine have lasted about three and a half years. Don't know if that's good or bad, but I'll probably start looking at replacing them at least every two or three years now that I've seen just how fast one can let go without any warning.



Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004

[rdorman]

Use girlings. At least they sell rebuild kits! I have a 5/8 sitting in the garage freshly rebuilt collecting dust.
Rick

[spd4me]

I had an Austin Healey and all the brake and master cylinder seals were made of real rubber. If you put the wrong type of brake fluid in it, it would slowly disolve the rubber turning everything black. Had to use a girling type or brand of fluid.

[Jim Harding]

Hey Rick..... ya know, I have two girling 3/4" M/C sitting in my garage somewhere.... they were susposed to go to the fling this past year as auction items. Good cores, but need rebuilding. Maybe I'll fix-em up and have for spares..... I already ordered three Wilwood units from Summit... guess I'm a glutton for punishment.

Speed... do you remember what the brand name of that fluid was? As I mentioned above, the seals in the Wilwood M/C are made in England.

Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004

[clayfoushee]

Jim, Lee Dahmer suggested I use the silicon (DOT V) stuff for both clutch and brake MCs, and it's made a huge difference with the clutch no longer fading slightly at high temps. But, have I created a new problem for those seals?

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler (452.1-stroker), top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Jim Harding]

I don't know Clay. I'm thinking more and more that the black color that the fluid takes on is probably due to seal deterioration along with the black anodized stuff wearing off. There may be something to using a different fluid like spd4me mentioned above. At any rate, it seems that the Wilwood M/C's have some issues because this doesn't seem like a isolated situation...... too many others have had to replace them due to them wearing out after a couple years. Also, Wilwood makes the statement that they are rather inexpensive to manufacture and therefore they do not make a rebuild kit. Seems their thinking is, if it lasts a year or more, then you got your money's worth

Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004

[clayfoushee]

Jim, I think Wilwood sells it's own brand of fluid, and I thought it was equivalent to DOT V, since they're stuff is supposed to be for racing applications, but I could be wrong. Of course, it's expensive.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler (452.1-stroker), top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[clayfoushee]

quote:Originally posted by clayfoushee

Jim, I think Wilwood sells it's own brand of fluid, and I thought it was equivalent to DOT V, since their stuff is supposed to be for racing applications, but I could be wrong. Of course, it's expensive.

I used to grind a little going into reverse with the DOT III stuff, but the V totally cured that problem.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler (452.1-stroker), top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler (452.1-stroker), top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[jhaynie]

Jim,

I think you hit the nail on the head. That could be Wilwood's expectations. My front MC failed at 1300 miles, and just over one year.

John

Unique 289FIA #9367
351W Fuel Injected

[Mike Geddes]

I think spd4me may have something there.
I notice a lot of reference to seals coming from the UK, and talk
about synthetic fluids.
many of the older seals made in the UK for Girling etc. ( and still today)
are made of rubber.
and for those of us into rebulding older UK cars....the big red light
comes on.....do not use synthetic fluid in brakes or clutch systems.
Mike

Mike Geddes

[rdorman]

There you go Jim. Built in spares. Just make sure the pushrods are the same. If not you should change them.

Seems to me that Wilwood components are NOT compatible with DOT V or silicone fluids. Wilwood 570 is a DOT III fluid that exceeds the higher standards. And it doesn't cost a fortune. Valvoline synthetic (not silicone) is a dirt cheap alternative.

Rick

[clayfoushee]

You guys always start these things and start me worrying, so I went and looked. My M/C's all three of them are silver annodized metal and say LUCAS on the side. Now that doesn't exactly make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside, but it does currently have DOTV in it.

Lee Dahmer's car is identical and built in '97, and he's run the same stuff since '97. He races the car hard and has never replaced a "Lucas" master cylinder. Is Lucas(Wilwood) the same thing? The P/N is 64676660 A.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler (452.1-stroker), top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Jim Harding]

Lucas..... let's hope they work better than their electrics

Mine looks like the pic below.... and has "Wilwood" on the side.



Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004

[clayfoushee]

These look a bit beefier......but they do say Lucas, yikes!

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler (452.1-stroker), top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[ralphscott]

Clay, "Lucas -- Prince of Darkness" (I've had too many Brit cars and Motorcyles)

Ralph