Front brakes squeling like a pig!

[ralphscott]

Clay, the Wilwood seals seem to be OK with silicone. However the line-loc (hydraulic emergency brake) actually makes two kinds one for traditional brake fluid and another for silicone brake fluid. I just got the silicone compatible one recently from of all places JC Whitney and it is listed as such in their catalogue. So I will be replacing my line-loc, my brake pressure switch and putting on my big brake kit in the month of November. Silicone has not failed me under repeated heavy braking, but I am always open to others experiences as it may save me pain.

Ralph

[rdorman]

I typed this big response and then explorer crashed.

To summarize:
- if the E compound is any where near as dusty as the J that I have used you will not like them for every day use. Check Wilwoods pad catalog available online. GOOD stuff.
- Silicone has a number of problems ranging from areation and compressability to not being hygroscopic. When switching from 3 or 4 to 5 the entire system should be rebuilt. They don't mix well. Silicone based runnber parts will be attacked by it and there used to be issues with the swelling additives. Leave it to show cars, there are much higher boiling point fluids out there with out all the issues. Besides, if your calipers or any other point in the system is running in excess of 500 F (excluding pads and rotors of course) then you have, or will soon have, other issues to deal with. Wilwood specifically recommends against it. Look at DOT 5.1 if you can find it. Minimum dry of 525F. Pay attention to the wet boiling point. Since many of us do not change it as often as we should and many of the master cylinders are vented to the air.
- Do a search, there are some charts out there with the wet and dry boiling points of popular performance fluids. Valvoline synpower is the best bargain on the market (50F higher than LMA). I always had pad fade running the T compound with it and never had fluid fade.
- If you have to change the rotor and your balance bar is set forward, look at the 12.19" rotor and the Q compound if you are running the 10.75" currently. Measure carefully for clearence (don't forget the wheel weights). A 12.19 rotor will have all the mass you will ever need. Plus given the same set of cercumstances will run cooler than the lower mass 10.75 effectively 'extending' the heat range of the compound being used.

Sorry this is no where as detailed as the post I had already typed with all the links and everything, just don't have the time to do it again!

Rick

[ralphscott]

Thanks Rick this is very helpful to me. I have 16" wheels so clearance will not be a problem as we have done this on another Ralph Long's car a couple of years ago or so same wheels ans wheel size. I will check the compound and see what it is.

Ralph

[rdorman]

No problem Ralph. All of our cars vary a little bit. But as any one who knows, I have run the numbers, A LOT. A good balance for my car is the 12.19 with the four pot wilwood 1.75" and a 3/4 master cylinder running Q compound pads in the front with stock Jag, Girling two pot calipers, EBC greenstuff pads and a 5/8 master cylinder. This of course all with the Neal pedal setup. This setup is naturally balanced for my car (and should be close for others). Want to run at the track? switch pads, bleed brakes and you should be set.

The basics of this setup where threshold pedal effort under 75 pounds, 16" (or 17") center of gravity, 2730 pounds with half a tank and driver, 45/55 split, optimum stop at 1.1 G (more than most street tires will ever do). Slap on slicks, swap pads, dial in a little more front bias and test. Run BFG 'stones', then you have a bit of rearward bias, which will work good for a street setup and a proportioning valve should you want to run one (designing a dual purpose system from scratch, I would use one in the rear, build in a natural rearward bias and use the valve at higher rates of deceleration). If you have more wieght of equal distribution, or more in the front, or higher center of gravity, or want to stop faster then you need more front brake. The opposites have of course the opposite effect. The mass of this system is all you will ever need. Of course a higher temp compound and possibly some cooling will be required for track use but these pads are so easy to change that is no big deal.

I still have to change to the 12.19 rotors so I am having to dial in a little front bias. But, when I first bought the car, I had to use a calendar to plan ahead for stopping..... No more! There is still a lot that can be had from this system.

Rick

[rdorman]

When I get around to it, I am going to do so testing to dial it in. I have a Gtech meter and will measure off the distances. If I can get under 120 feet from 60, I will be happy. Of course, under 110 I will be REALLY happy but I am not holding my breath. I just like they way they feel......... Rock hard and high pedal with little travel, easy to modulate (at least for my limited abilities) and they don't require much effort in daily use. One of these days I would like to drive a new Unique and check out what is on it for a point of reference.
Rick

[bittentoo]

WOW[:O] Rick, thanks for all of the info!!!!

Now I just need to get out there and put it to use

Kelly

[rdorman]

Most know better than to get me started on brakes If you ever feel suicidal, grab a bottle of good tequila, come on over, wait until I am good and lubed up, then bring up brakes. I guarentee that after a while, you will no longer be questioning your decision on comitting suicide!

The good news is that I am taking a break on brakes. Now I am on suspenstion design. But that is a much larger subject and I don't have as much time at the moment so no need to fear. I still have many updates to do to the brake worksheet. That is when my attention returns in that direction.

Did you ever get that adjustable rocker conversion from Crane locked down? I was thinking of your road side adjustment while I was changing the cam out on my Cleveland. What cam are you running anyways Kelly?

Rick

[bittentoo]

No more problems since that ill fated day! But if I had it to do all over again I would pull the heads off and have the machine work and screw in studs installed. As to the cam, well that is the reason I wound up with the Crane conversion kit in the first place.
I built that engine for my 71 Torino, with Auto and AC, so I built it rather conservative. The cam was recommened to me by a guy that drag raced a 71 Mustang for a while with a cleveland in it. It is a Comp 268AH10 speciality grind cam. Don't have the cam card in front of me for the .050" numbers but at .006" it is 268 intake, 276 exhaust, .531" lift at 110 center line, ground with 4 degrees advance. But the kicker is that it is only offered in hydraulic form. When I decided to put this engine in the cobra I wanted solids for the sound so out came the hyd. lifters and roller pedistals and in went solid lifters, Crane stud conversion kit, roller rockers and push rods. I run a tight lash ,010" hot. So don't let anyone tell you it can't be done! 8000 miles since February and running great!
A lot of the guys at the 335 forum run this cam also. It makes a lot of cylinder pressure and is very good for the open chamber heads, although mine are closed chambered.
Tell ya something else while we are on cams, I'll never degree in another cam!
After I got the engine broke in and sorted out just didn't like the way it pulled in the upper rpm range. The guy that recomminded the cam also races 428cj's, taught me this trick and does this when one of thier cars doesn't perform as it should. It involves setting your cam timing with cylinder pressure.
You pull all of the sparkplugs out, remove the carb, and tear down the front of the motor to the timing chain. Screw in a cylinder pressure guage in the cylinder of choice and turn the engine over and record the pressure. Then you retard or advanve the cam timing in 2 degree increments until you have maximun cylinder pressure. Now the engine is happy with the cam! Lots of work but it really pays off. With my cam degreed in at heads up I had 186#, 2 degrees retarded 200#, 4 degrees retarded 212#!
A lot of difference! and remember, I degreed in this cam as per Comp specs. So what I basicly did was to take out the 4 degrees of advance that Comp grinds into thier cams and am running at 110 degree CL now.
Our Houston Cobra Club decided to do a chassis dyno so I thought why not. Although this a lot like everyone dropping thier pants! You got what you got and everyone is there to see it! And of course we did this in July, 98* and 100% humidity! Well good or bad, it went 326@6000rpm's and 318torque at the rear wheels.
Would really like to put a larger cam in but this one pull hard from 1000 to 6000rpm's so I'll keep what I have!
Sorry, you asked!!!!!

Kelly

[rdorman]

Not sorry I asked at all. Very interesting about the cylinder pressure method. Never heard that one. I degreed the new cam in neither advanced nor retarded but Crane grinds them straight up.

Your cam:
236 and .562
244 and .556

Mine (crane 524422, recommended by Crane and others)
288 @.004, 226 and .528
292 @ .004, 230 and .536
Also on a 110
Cruise 3200-3600, RPM range 2500-5500, float at 6500 (where I regurally twist it!)

Yours is about 500 RPM hotter. Last time on the dyno with a smaller holley 600 and the smaller ford cam, something around 216, 224 with slightly less lift it ran 298 @ 5600 and 323 to the rear wheels, not corrected in 95+ heat and humidity. Hoping this time my HP will be up closer to yours (corrected it was, but I don't no if they corrected it or what). I think I looked at your cam but didn't feel like checking valve clearences. Checked once, don't care to do it again!

Now I just have to get it tuned for the cam and put in the MSD and see what we end up with. I am going to go home and screw in a pressure gauge and see where it is.

Aren't Clevelands fun????

Rick