MGB Front End

[bomelia]

I ha disassembled most of my front end. However, I am uncertain as to how to remove the spindle assemblies from the steering rack.

Thus, I have two spindle attached to the rack.

Thoughts?

Mike

[nolastyankee]

Mike,
Are you talking about removing the kingpins from the rack and pinion? If so, the ball joints have a taper fit pin that engages into the kingpin. Remove the bolt and either pound out the ball joint from the bottom, or use a ball joint removal tool. You can borrow these from any local auto parts store. It's sometimes called a 'pickle fork'.

If you have a front end that has been around for a while these parts may be corroded together and it may be a b!#@% to get them apart. Be careful of the threads if you want to save the ball joints and elect to pound them out from the bottom. On the other hand, the removal tool can damage the boots if you are not careful...

Brian Carlson

Unique 9122 - 289 FIA Cobra - The Legendary "Spence" Car

[Glenview289]

Mike,
When you get the ball joints out, I would replace them with new ones. They will look good, work nice and free, and have good seals. If you have not found it yet, Moss Motors (mossmotors.com) has all the replacement parts you will need for anything on the MGB fromt end. You will soon find out, that it will be easier (and sometimes even cheaper to buy new than to salvage and rework older parts). Plus you will have the security of good, solid, new parts in important areas.

[bomelia]

Keith Wilson and Brian have me convinced to follow the Hawk route. Does Hawk supply a new version of this part?

When it occured to me that I did not know how to remove it...I left it alone since I feared I might damage the threads. I will take a look this evening to see If I understand what you all are suggesting.

thanks,

Mike

[nolastyankee]

Hawk does not supply anything that has to do with the rack or the kingpins. It is only the suspension arms and coil overs. You'll want to rebuild all the MGB stuff you plan to reuse. As Dad said, I'd replace the ball joints...They are cheap insurance.

When you order the suspension, be sure to go through Doug Jackson at MGA/MGB. It's the same price and he'll give you all upgraded fasteners and a urethane bushing kit. Also, with the MG beam, you'll want to think about your radiator hose routing before having the beam powder coated!

You may also want to consider getting the Hawk wide-track kit. It widens the front end by 5/8" and will put the total track much closer to the original car. This, of course, depends on the brakes and the wheels you intend to put on the car. We lost space with the Wilwood conversion that we had to make back up with machined spacers behind the Trigo hubs. If you go with the wide track, be sure to consider your ball joint thread engagement as the kingpins will be farther from the rack than they were designed to be.

The Hawk front end is nice, but remember that Unique knows nothing about it and you're on your own in the engineering department. (Tony and I can help, but as you can see different equipment changes the ball game!)

Brian Carlson

Unique 9122 - 289 FIA Cobra - The Legendary "Spence" Car

[bomelia]

There are ball joints in the steering rack too...would you replace these also?

Now, for MGB parts, who should I call...the same guys that sell the Hawk system (MBB/MGA) above?

Mike

[Poorboy]

A good thing to learn befor trying to order parts would be the right name for the parts you want. The part you call a ball joint is a tie rod end. You have inter & outer tie rod ends.

[nolastyankee]

Mike,
As Dad mentions above, I would go to Moss Motors for all your MG needs.

Before ordering anything, however, I would give some serious consideration to whether you want to undertake this modification on what will be a new car. I don't know you or your mechanical abilities, but from the questions you are asking my instinct tells me that may be better off with a complete Unique rolling chassis.

Please don't take offense, that is not my intent here. You need to understand that if you go down this route, there will be a lot of questions with not a lot of answers. If I'm off base, I'll be the first to admit it. Unique has done a lot of work on their chassis, and the Hawk front end is currently only on 2 cars. It's a great piece, and not too hard if you are mechanically inclined...But you will need to do quite a bit of reading and research on your own.

I'm glad to help if you need it.

Brian Carlson

Unique 9122 - 289 FIA Cobra - The Legendary "Spence" Car

[nolastyankee]

As for rod ends inside the rack, replacement is your call. They are normally protected under the boots and out of the weather and should not be corroded. Clean them up and see if there is play.

We didn't replace ours.

Brian Carlson

Unique 9122 - 289 FIA Cobra - The Legendary "Spence" Car

[bomelia]

First, I am mechanically inclined...have worked on cars off and on all my life. Use to live under an MGB, Spitfire (ack!), and a Datsun 260Z. Second, I am quite far down the path for front and rear suspensions. Third, I ask questions, because I do not know the answers. I even stop for directions (every now and again) with my wife in the car. Fourth, I am doing it this way because I WANT a project. So if I do not know a part name or how something is done, then if it ires you, ignore me.

For those of you who want to help, thank you.

Mike

[nolastyankee]

Mike,
No ire here. It's your car and your choices. Just wanted to be sure you know what you are getting into. You will need access to a machine shop and welding equipment (or have someone with these skills that can help) to get this job done, and we haven't even started talking about what brakes you will install yet.

My $0.02...As nice as the Hawk front end is, I still wouldn't install it in a new car. Retrofit, yes. New car, no. It's a 40 year old design and has no caster adjustment. Savings will be less than $1K when all is said and done.

If you are still intent on going this route, I have two brake rotors that Unique modified for use on the MGB kingpins. You'll need bearings and all the hardware as well as calipers. (Dodge Aspen if I remember correctly) They're all bead blasted and ready to install. Yours for the cost of shipping.

Brian Carlson

Unique 9122 - 289 FIA Cobra - The Legendary "Spence" Car

[bomelia]

Savings compared to what? Unique's?

Or some other design?

Mike

That would be true with some build combinations. At its most expensive, that leaves $1k+ for other stuff.

[nolastyankee]

Mike,
Savings as compared to the Unique front end. Last time I looked, it was about $3K, so let's say that you can get it for $3100 delivered. This may be even less with a chassis purchase, but for the sake of argument, we'll use $3100. For your money, this includes the beam, suspension, coil overs with your pick of springs, and the rack and pinion.

The Hawk front end is $1300 delivered from England. This varies by the pound-dollar conversion, but this is a close figure with import tariffs and such. You'll want to get the wide track kit for another $85 (I would highly recommend it) or you'll need to machine spacers to maintain the correct track. This will cost at least $100 in machine time, so we'll call the whole package $1400.

Again for argument, we'll say that you got an MG front end donated. Even further, let's assume that all parts are good and reusable. (Keeping in mind that we have already discussed needing new ball joints...Oops, tie rod ends! [:I] ) If this is the case, you'll only be into $200 for beam modifications, sandblasting and powder coating, new fasteners, and kingpin rebuild parts. Note, Moss replacement kingpins are $400 alone, so this can add up quick. $200 is a low estimate. Total so far is $1600.

For a comparable brake package, you'll need to retrofit a Wilwood package from a mid 60's F-body Chevy that will run around $500. If you don't have access to a machine shop, add another $100 to modify the rotors once you determine what you need. $2200 so far.

We can stop here if your steering rack doesn't need anything. However, given the ball joint (darn it...tie rod end ) discussion from earlier, I'll venture to say you might need seals, boots, etc. Also keep in mind the 'incidentals' like stainless brake lines and such. By the way, the Hawk front end has #350 springs and you may need to replace those eventually too for a heavier set.

At a bare minimum for a comparable setup to Unique your max savings is $1K. If your front end needs anything, parts will pile up and burn through that amount in a hurry.

True, $1K is $1K. If you can scrounge old Aspen parts and retrofit brakes, you can save more, but the performance isn't the same. (Don't forget the free rotor offer) And the GAZ coil overs that come with the Hawk front end are way better than Carrera's.

For us, we started with all parts we needed except the Hawk and had access to machining. Even with this, I'd bet I'm within $500 of the Unique setup. For me, this was a labor of love and part of the history of our car. I wouldn't have wanted to do this any other way.

Again, this is all my opinion. The choices are yours. Should you decide to continue down this path I'm happy to help you in any way I can.

Brian Carlson

Unique 9122 - 289 FIA Cobra - The Legendary "Spence" Car

[Poorboy]

Mike,
I know where you might get a MGB crossmember, king pins, etc. if you end up going that way.

[bomelia]

I actually have two cross members, one which came attached to a full front end and I also got another complete steering rack and a steering column. I still have not ascertained the state of my kingpins, but both steering racks have very nice looking tie rods, boots still in place, etc. The fact that you have a line on some nice kingpins might come in handy! Thanks.

Block goes to shop in the AM!!

Mike

[bomelia]

Brian,

Thanks for the advice. I am hopefull to come in under 1800 total, perhaps a bit less. I realize that is optimistic... but I promise to tell the truth in the end how it comes out!!

It will not be top end going in. I am building my car cash only...so this hobby HAS to come in UNDER the radar!!

You remember the old story of how you boil a frog alive? You put him in a pot of cold water on the stove and you turn the heat up slowly. Voila! Cooked frog...takes a while, but no complaints from the frog, er... you know what I mean[:I].

Mike

[nolastyankee]

Mike,
If nothing else it will be nice to have another Hawk front end on the block to compare tuning notes. What brakes are you going to use? That decision will determine your front track. As I mentioned earlier, we started with the standard Dodge Aspen parts and converted to Wilwood. The change cost us 1/2"-3/4" in overall front track, but actually moved the rotors outboard by more than 1" per side. The compact design of the Wilwood rotor hat makes a huge difference.

One watch out, the standard Dodge conversion places the rotor really, really close to the outer tie rod end. We had 1/16" on one side, no space on the other. The Wilwoods fixed that problem, but it sounds like you may not be going this route.

I have lots of front end pictures, let me know if you need any images to help your build.



Brian Carlson

Unique 9122 - 289 FIA Cobra - The Legendary "Spence" Car

[bomelia]

Nice picture.

Not sure about brake approach...still looking at that,

Mike

[Slither]

Mike,

I hope the frog ([:X]) isn't reading your posts [:O]!

There isn't anything about a Cobra that comes in "under the radar." [:P][:P]

Paul

289 FIA

2899464

408 Windsor

Toploader (wide)

3.07 rear

[bomelia]

True...too True... lets say we should not irratate the "frog"

Mike