Specs on older Southern Automotive 351W

[bstandley1]

The recent thread on 351W horsepower reawakened my curiousity in my own motor, which, according to the last owner, was a Southern Automotive 351W, circa 1998, with 385 HP. My backside tells me that the HP figure is overstated, but I'm interested in finding out any specs associated with this motor. I've sent a message off to the Parhams, but haven't heard back. Do any of you folks happen to have a 351W from Southern from around the 1998 time frame ... and if so, have any specs; cam, heads, compression ratio,etc. Appreciate any information. Thanks!

Bob

[patrija]

Susan's generally good about getting around to emails, but your best bet is to call Southern Automotive directly.

[jhaynie]

Go find a shop with a dyno. Probably will cost $100-$150 to find out hp, but may be able to tune a little more out of it. Plus its kind of a cool experience.

John

Unique 289FIA #9367
351W Fuel Injected

[spd4me]

It could be a stroker motor. Mine is a 396W stroker and was advertised with 455 HP. Southern Auto says they under rate the HP so people won't get mad if they dyno and have less.

[Stephen Dutton]

From our findings, we have been able to reproduce within 10hp the same results from our engines. If the same parts, clearances, procedures, etc, are used the HP ratings shouldn't be that far off. There are many other reasons we dyno every engine and not just run it in on a cranking stand. Example: Loading the engine is the only way to build enough cylinder pressure to seat the rings. You cant do this freewheeling the engine on a stand. Timing, timing curve, air/fuel ratio, exhaust gas temps, etc, are just a few of the things measured and adjusted on the dyno before ever leaving the shop.

Bob I would suggest you take it to a chassis dyno unless you have the engine out. If you have it out bring it to us if you want to really see what it has. I'm sure we could get more out of the combination you have.

Our most popular 351W is a very streetable 400 hp, (actually a few made 408hp but some have made 398). If you would like more information please visit our web site at www.duttonperformance.com, or feel free to call with any questions at 256-282-3051 or you can reach Dan Dutton at 256-820-0706.

Stephen Dutton
Dutton Performance

[bstandley1]

Thanks for the suggestions ... I've got an appointment Friday morning with a local (sixty miles away!) performance shop that has a chassis dyno. Ought to be interesting!

Bob

[Slither]

Let us know what you find out Bob...

Paul

289 FIA

2899464

408 Windsor

Toploader (wide)

3.07 rear

[bstandley1]

Well, I drove to the closest shop with a chassis dyno (and a place recommended to me by a local racer). After a brief orientation by the technician,Josh, I proceeded to run the motor up to 5700 RPMs (didn't want to risk the chance of imploding anything). At about 4000 RPM, the engine started missing badly and the miss continued for the rest of the pull. I shut it down and the tech checked the dwell<img src=images/icon_speech_ugh.gif border=0 width=23 height=15 alt=Insert Speech Icon: Ugh>points were gapped too closely, reset them and started to check the timing ... when he discovered there was no timing marks! We ran a second pull and the miss continued and shut it down at around 4500 RPM. I took a quick peek at the temperature gauge and I could watch the needle move past 230 degrees!!!! Needless to say, I spilled a bit of coolant on the shop floor. Next time, I'll play closer attention to the temperature.

Josh recomended I replace the old points style distributor with an MSD pro billet, install some good wires and a blaster coil and then have someone put some marks on the balancer so that the timing could be accurately set.

The results from the first and only pull were ugly .... horsepower peaked at 3500 RPM with a whopping 185 horsepower However, it does leave considerable room for improvement. I heading to the net to look for some MSD ignition stuff. If I'm not mistaken, I can use a 8354 distributor without having to buy an MSD box. It was a sobering experience, but the experts think I'll get some excellent results with a new ignition.

Bob

[Stephen Dutton]

When you change your distributor be sure to look at the gear. Windsors are known for excessive wear resulting in erratic timing and of course metal shavings in the engine. If the gear edges are sharp this also means the cam gear is the same way. Installing a new distributor on the wore cam will result in distributor gear failure. (We found this out on the dyno even with composite gears.) MSD #8354 is a pro billet that can be run without the MSD box. The distributor will help with the accuracy of timing and adjustability of the timing curve, but the big difference comes with the MSD box. A 6AL #6420 is a Multiple Spark Discharge control unit. In short this box controls the spark and creates multiple sparks at the time of ignition for 20 degrees of crank rotation. This box also comes with a rev limiter with interchangable chips (6,000, 7,000 and 8,000 RPM chips are included) and others are available for your engine RPM limits in 200 RPM increments. Good luck and let us know if we can help you with anything.



Stephen Dutton
Dutton Performance
256-282-3051
www.duttonperformance.com

Dan Dutton
256-820-0706

[Slither]

Bob,

Sorry to hear of your dissapointing session. It will be interesting to follow the results of bringing it online. Keep us posted with your progress.

Question for you... no timing marks??? What's up with that? Was this the balancer that came on the engine?

Let me pose this to the group... is it common for a balancer to be unmarked or is it a substandard part?

Paul

289 FIA

2899464

408 Windsor

Toploader (wide)

3.07 rear

[Stephen Dutton]

Every factory balancer and aftermarket balancer should have a mark. I guess there is a possibility there could be a el-cheapo out there that doesnt come with one. There are a few possibilities for what has happened. First it could be the outer ring on the balancer has spun and is out so far it doesnt come close when trying to read it with a light. Second it could be missing the timing tab all together or have the wrong balancer to timing cover combination. Some years had it on the opposite side and therefore needs a different year balancer to be able to line up. This of course should have been caught at the engine shop. I wonder how they set the timing on the cranking stand?

Stephen Dutton
Dutton Performance
256-282-3051
www.duttonperformance.com

[Justin Upchurch]

Spend the $$$ and get the MSD box. Also, you may want to consider getting the add on module that will handle your timing curve as well and just run the distributor locked out.

[lonnie]

JU
What do you mean by locking out the distributor?
Lonnie

[bstandley1]

An update on the timing marks ... I crawled under the beast and removed all the grime that accumulated on the harmonic balancer ... and found the timing marks! They are very faint, but there. I am a little puzzled by one matter; the range of timing marks runs from 10 degrees ATC to 30 degrees BTC. Since total advance is supposed to be 32-34 degrees, it exceeds the existing marks and I guess some eyeballing is in order. Does anyone know if the marks I found are typical of 351Ws? Again, appreciate all the comments.

Bob

[Justin Upchurch]

Lonnie,
You can get plates to keep the mechanical advance from activating. Most of the time you will run the timing retarted for an easy start and then program the curve in on the box. You get a more accurate advance with the box.
I am thinking of running the new MSD digital 7 on my car, which has some built in goodies such as a programable wheel speed acceleration (traction controle).

[lonnie]

Justin
I have been looking at MSD distributors they must have 8 listed for
a 351W.I was also going to use a 6AL box. What MSD dist and box would you recomend?
Lonnie

[Justin Upchurch]

Lonnie,
My engine builder is useing a Pacific Racing small cap distributor, which is an MSD. You will choose your distributor based on intake height, cap size, and cam gear. If you have your cam specs, you should be able to find out what gear you will need on the distributor. I have had great luck with the 6AL box, but I will try one of new digital boxes if I like the one my friend has in his car.

Justin