Parking brake help, I think I lost my pads

[davids2toys]

After a bunch of searching and not finding what I needed, I decided to start a new thread.
I have the handle on the side of the tunnel, it always held the car in the parked position but would not stop the car or lock up the wheels if you were cruising...probably normal I expect. Is this an emergency braking or a parking brake? The handle always pulled all the way up, and I have tried to adjust it so it would be done after about 7 clicks or so, I never succeeded. Well this weekend after a cruise, I launched it hard, when I shut off the car and applied the brake, I noticed it wasn't holding, and the pull on the handle never got even a little harder. I adjusted it all the way out and in, no change. Upon inspecting it and trying to figure this Jag e brake system out I have noticed the there only seems to be a pad on 1 outside of the rotor, on driver and passenger side, and it is the one that gets squeezed by the lever. I think I am looking at the pads, they are about 1/2 inch wide by about 2 inches long, It looks like there is a place for a pad but it is not there. Is this possible, can they come flying off?
Anyway, any insight would be appreciated, I have a big G stamped in the caliper, I am assumming it is a Girling unit perhaps.
Thanks...Dave

[nolastyankee]

There should be a pad on each side of the e-brake caliper. If you are having to 'adjust' the e-brake calipers then you have an installation or equipment issue. Jag e-brakes are self indexing and, when set up properly, should not require any external adjustment to compensate for pad wear. Pads are a bugger to change...Will be fun!

[Naumoff]

They also must have the pull off springs installed on the levers so they can self adjust. And yes they are a parking brake.

http://www.uniquecobra.com/forums/sh...e+pull+springs

[davids2toys]

So I should have a total of 4 pads, 2 on each rotor then, correct? I only have one, so I guess I'm scewed.I will be putting the car out of commission very soon, so I guess I will start on the rear brakes. I wanted to look at the driver side (regular brakes)caliper anyway because one of the pads is very thin and the other is fine
So you say this job is a bear huh, great...where can I get info on this job? I am sure this is a whole lot easier out of the car!
Thanks Brian

Tony,
I have the springs you are refering to. I was only trying to adjust the cable so it would be about seven clicks to max tight.
thanks for the link, I had read that already.
Thanks

[nolastyankee]

David,
The rear end is Jaguar from the XJ6, and it is similar to the XKE. You can search on-line, there are lots of sites detailing rear end service. You can also find Jag maintanance manuals at some bookstores. I also put a link on this site a while back that has an awesome Jag reference site by a guy named Kirby Palm. You can easily find it with a Google search.

[davids2toys]

Well i did a GOOGLE search on kirby palm..WOW, tons of hits. I did register on Jag lovers forum. Very busy site!
Thanks
I did a search on this Unique forum site and found nothing, do you happen to know where that link would be?

[nolastyankee]

Link to Kirby Palm manual:

http://www.nettally.com/palmk/jaguar.html

Highly recommended for all Unique owners! You'll need to download a MS Word doc.

[davids2toys]

Very good, thanks....I just evaperated 3 hours.
I think I will go get a haynes manual ASAP, unless you know of something better.
Also tried to order the CD Rom from coltrane along with the printed version of the book, well, it looks like they are out of buisiness. Is their any other way to get these?
I have the complete CD rom set for older corvettes from NCRS, used it all the time when I had my 60 vette.

[davids2toys]

David,
The rear end is Jaguar from the XJ6, and it is similar to the XKE. You can search on-line, there are lots of sites detailing rear end service. You can also find Jag maintanance manuals at some bookstores. I also put a link on this site a while back that has an awesome Jag reference site by a guy named Kirby Palm. You can easily find it with a Google search.

I am online looking for a haynes manual, lots to pick from. Just noticed you say XJ6, I thought somebody said XJS, so I was looking for XJS.
I am on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=12273687...k%3Axjs&page=1
I was looking at number 7, 10, and 16, but they are all for XJ 12 and XJS.
Just went back in and see one for XJ6 88-94, another for 68-79, and 68-74, which would I need?
I absolutely no nothing about Jags except as a kid, I always thought the E-type was the coolest car on the planet!
Just remembered where I saw XJS, it was in the Kirby Palm book you linked me to.

[richardu]

David and Brian:
This past spring I ran into the same problem with the ebrake. It would not hold no matter what I did. I played around with mirrors and lights under the car, and I also noticed that it looked like I have a pad on just one side of each rotor. I appreciate you guys digging into this issue. I temporarily gave up, and decided to just drive the car this summer without the ebrake, but I'd like to get it working at some point. I'm also going to look into the resources you've been discussing. With the body on the chassis, it looks like it's going to be tough to work on the ebrake. Any wisdom would be appreciated, and I'll let you know if I learn anything new.

Additionally, I just pulled the pads on the front and rear. I've got groaning rear brakes, and I'd like to improve the overall braking performance of the car. I've got the part number for alternative front pads, but still looking for the pn for the rear pads. I think I may just go to a Jag dealer near my house for help. Any thoughts?


Dick

[nolastyankee]

Dick,
I replaced the rear pads on our car with EBC greenstuff. EBC makes 3 different compounds for street to full race that fit Jag calipers. They have a break in compound on the first few millimeters that is supposed to perform a light rotor surfacing. They work much better than our stock pads and do not require as much heat. They are noisier than stock pads when cold in terms of being groaning and grabby, but that's a price I am willing to pay for the performance.

The biggest bugger of installing new pads is getting the caliper retracted. There is simply no room under the car and I had to use a C-Clamp and 1/4 steel plate to bridge into the caliper to push it back. That part took several hours. Pulling the pins and swapping the pads took 10 minutes.

Feel free to give me a call sometime and I'll be happy to walk you through what we did. 479-621-8470

[davids2toys]

Hey Dick
Nice to know I'm not the only one with this problem, ha ha, only kidding! Seriously though, it is a real mystery how it was working one minute and the next minute nothing. Where did those two little pads go? I wonder. From what you are saying, that you already have the brake pads off, I figured if you got that far, the e brake pads would be easy to access, but from what Brian is saying, I guess maybe not.

On my car, I haven't taken anything apart yet. The only thing that I've determined is that I am missing two pads and that I have a slight leak immediately adjacent to the rotors (more on the driver's side though). There is nothing presently on the rotor, but left unchecked, I am sure it -will end up there. I read somewhere about just rtv-ing the seal, maybe that and neatly tie wrapping a rag dam setup just in case to keep it off the rotor. Seems like just too small of a leak to start ripping things apart.

I need to get into the rear calipers anyway because one of the pads is wearing quicker than the other and I wanted to investigate it.

I wonder if the emergency brake caliper and pads can be accessed, removed and replaced, without breaking down the rear brake main caliper?

Richard, how hard was it to pull the rear calipers?

Dave

[nolastyankee]

David,
Pulling the rear calipers on these cars is a chore with the body OFF. If you know exactly where the bolts are and can navigate a Jag rear end by feel, they you may have a shot. As much work as we have done on our car I may be able to do it, but it would be extremely difficult. (The mounting bolts engage threading outboard and the heads are up next to the differential case. Check that Kirby Palm manual I told you about!)

Unless there was an absolute need to do it there is no way I would attempt to pull a rear caliper with the rear end in place and the body on. I would probably cut a hole in the rear bulkhead before dropping the rear end. Should you decide pull the rear end you will need to watch changing your alignment (by rotating the rear end within the slop in the mounting holes) if you drop the differential. Then again, depending on whether the car was built by Alan and Maurice you may have an opportunity to string the chassis and optimize your alignment.

[scott h]

i had to pull the rear caliper to replace a leaking stub shaft seal, it is not technically difficult, just slow and tedious. Pull the wheel and stick your head in there. Not enough room around the bolt head for a ratcheting box wrench. you have to use an open end wrench and you can only turn the bolt a fraction of a turn, that's what takes so long, fine thread bolts and no room to turn the wrench. Is your leak brake fluid? It may be the seal.

[davids2toys]

David,
Pulling the rear calipers on these cars is a chore with the body OFF. If you know exactly where the bolts are and can navigate a Jag rear end by feel, they you may have a shot. As much work as we have done on our car I may be able to do it, but it would be extremely difficult. (The mounting bolts engage threading outboard and the heads are up next to the differential case. Check that Kirby Palm manual I told you about!)

Unless there was an absolute need to do it there is no way I would attempt to pull a rear caliper with the rear end in place and the body on. I would probably cut a hole in the rear bulkhead before dropping the rear end. Should you decide pull the rear end you will need to watch changing your alignment (by rotating the rear end within the slop in the mounting holes) if you drop the differential. Then again, depending on whether the car was built by Alan and Maurice you may have an opportunity to string the chassis and optimize your alignment.

WOW, sounds like a big PITA.
So, if I am reading in between the lines corectly, changing just the pads should be an easy job? What about the e brake pads and caliper?
I did a lot of reading in the link that you posted, just wish there was 36 hours in the day and not 24...lol! I will have to get back in there again.
I still want to get a Haynes manual, the Kirby Palm book, seems to be more of a supplement to a manual, than a manual itself. Did you ever read the post 6 back from this one about which Jag manual to purchase?
Thanks...Dave

Scott, this is definately gear oil, it is coming from about 2 inches outboard and up away from the rotor.

[nolastyankee]

David,
The Kirby Palm book is a free download from the link I told you about. I don't think there is a need for a Haynes manual, everything we ever needed on the Jag rear could be found via net searches.

Changing brake pads is easy unless you have to compress the piston into the caliper, then there is a bit more involved but still very servicable. Changing e-brake pade will be a royal pain since they are on the top side of the calipers. It should be manageable, but I have never attempted it with the body on. Your ability to navigate by feel will be important.

The brake lines run very close to the e-brake calipers and caused significant interference when performing e-brake maintenance on our car. We had to remove our brake lines to do any service at all. It was easy since we did that part with the body off.

[davids2toys]

David,
The Kirby Palm book is a free download from the link I told you about. I don't think there is a need for a Haynes manual, everything we ever needed on the Jag rear could be found via net searches.

Changing brake pads is easy unless you have to compress the piston into the caliper, then there is a bit more involved but still very servicable. Changing e-brake pade will be a royal pain since they are on the top side of the calipers. It should be manageable, but I have never attempted it with the body on. Your ability to navigate by feel will be important.

The brake lines run very close to the e-brake calipers and caused significant interference when performing e-brake maintenance on our car. We had to remove our brake lines to do any service at all. It was easy since we did that part with the body off.

Brian, I have already downloaded the book, it is a great resource, thanks, I have spent much time browsing thru it so far, on many occasions it mentioned other manuals , also you mention other manuals, I am confused on which one XJS? XJ6? XJ12? XKE? YEARS THAT APPLY TO OUR REAR?
I am really not a JAG expert at all, so it is all french to me!
Kirby Palm says XJS, you mentioned XJ6 in a few threads, I just got reading on the CWI site, XKE.......I'm
Actually, I am looking forward to getting into this thing and working on it, I just like my ducks lined up and my research complete before I dive in and either screw it up or do it the hard way!
Thanks...Dave

[nolastyankee]

Dave,
Jaguar used a very simple Dana 44 based center section IRS in cars from the early XKE to the XJS. I can't tell you all the subtleties but there are differences to the diff casing and brake calipers with virtually identical suspension bits. Not sure of the cutoff but the ubiquitous "Jag IRS" that has found a way into almost every hot rod variant made continued to the mid 80's. I find myself looking at late 70's early 80's XJ6 parts because I know they fit most of our cars, and mine in particular. In terms of basic service there is not much variation between the rear ends. When Unique builds a chassis they vary the mounting angles to adapt the rear end they are installing to the chassis being built. We had to modify our diff mount when we changed housings.

This is one of the many reasons that I firmly maintain that there is no correct answer for any of these cars since there are not two the same - even if the basic choices on powertrain are identical!

[scott h]

how old is your car? in my case i i had the leak from the time i got the car. butch did what was necessary to replace/fix the seal, i had to send him the stub shaft. now that winter is coming you'll have alot of time to fix the problem before spring. I agree that the repairs would be easier with the center section out of the car but I am not sure of the trade off between removing the diff and the time it takes to remove the caliper, also I installed my parking brake after the body was on, once again not as easy but it is just time and patience.

[davids2toys]

Well Brian,
I guess I am just not used to working in the dark all the time. I love diagrams, manuals and clear work instructions, but I guess it would be to easy then and anybody would be able to do it...lol?
I see what your saying, I just did not realize how much lack of standardization there is in these cars. I guess I will just do the best I can, ask a lot of questions, and hopefully learn a bunch along the way without screwing up to much!!!
Thanks

Dave,
Jaguar used a very simple Dana 44 based center section IRS in cars from the early XKE to the XJS. I can't tell you all the subtleties but there are differences to the diff casing and brake calipers with virtually identical suspension bits. Not sure of the cutoff but the ubiquitous "Jag IRS" that has found a way into almost every hot rod variant made continued to the mid 80's. I find myself looking at late 70's early 80's XJ6 parts because I know they fit most of our cars, and mine in particular. In terms of basic service there is not much variation between the rear ends. When Unique builds a chassis they vary the mounting angles to adapt the rear end they are installing to the chassis being built. We had to modify our diff mount when we changed housings.

This is one of the many reasons that I firmly maintain that there is no correct answer for any of these cars since there are not two the same - even if the basic choices on powertrain are identical!