Antifreeze in oil

[robbinsshkr]

Your not going to believe this. I am within a week or two of completing my build, or at least I was until discovering antifreeze in my oil. I was rerouting one of the oil cooler lines and not wanting oil to spill on the floor I decided to drain it in a cup. I just about chit when I seen what came out of the cooler line! The thing that has me puzzled is that this engine has only been ran about 5 minutes since it left southern automotive's test stand.
I see no way it could be a head gasket, but i guess anything is possable. Not only did i have antifreeze in it, but my barn is heated as well so the block freezing and busting is not possable. What else is left???
I haven't called Bill Parum yet, but I will first thing monday morn'n. I have one of his 452 ci-super FE's. I doubt there is any bearing damage as it hasn't ran long enough and when it did, it had plenty of oil psi, but i guess it could cause pitting. I'm guessing 1/2 to 1 quart of antifreeze came out of the pan. kinda hard to tell as some came out first when I removed the plug and the rest was mixed in the milky, diluted oil. Any suggestions?
Guess I'll go cry in my beer for a while
Eddie

[Slither]

YIKES!

Sorry to hear that, Eddie. It almost sounds like the water jacket could be leaking. Wasn't that an issue on some of the lifter valleys in the FE engines? Sorry I am not more knowledgeable...

I imagine that the engine guys will be here to consult and help you sort it out shortly.



That is a bummer...

[Naumoff]

Eddie,
Call Bill, Susan, or Lyle @ SA. They will take care of you.
It could be a leaking intake gasket. If Just for chits and giggles try tightening up the intake bolts and see if they don't feel very tight. The FelPro gaskets have a history of warping and leaking @ the water passage.
hope this doesn't delay your build much.

[robbinsshkr]

Thanks guys,
I can't think of it being anything other than an intake gasket. there are other things that could cause the same outcome, but under the circumstances a intake gasket makes the most sense and would certainly be better than having to pull the engine. I am not as familiar with the FE's as some of you guys as I have always built chevy engines with the exception of a 429 I built when I was 15 or 16. It was a ford, but still not the FE. There are a lot of ford [FE] experts on here and I am fortunate to be very close to one of the best, both in distance and friendship. Brent, you awake yet?
I'll check the intake bolts. I guess if i find something loose, I'll filler back up with oil and antifreeze [in different locations ] and see what results I get. I can try pressurizing the cooling system with a tester, but unless the engine is brought up to temperature, the leak may not present its self.
Eddie

[Slither]

Thanks guys,
There are a lot of ford [FE] experts on here and I am fortunate to be very close to one of the best, both in distance and friendship.

Brent, you awake yet?

Eddie

I was wondering why we hadn't heard from him... asleep at the wheel again?!?

You and Tony are right... try to pick off the easy stuff first. But Tony's suggestion about calling SA are right on the money. Let them lead you through it.

I imagine that you and Brent will sort it out in no time flat, with all the experience you two have.

Being the weekend, it may not be until later tonight that folks check the boards... You'll probably get lots of suggestions then.

[ralphscott]

My 2 cents as tempting as it is, call first, then mess with the engine after you have spoken with Bill's crew. It could be intake or head gasket. I presume you checked to see if you had any seepage from the head gasket area on the engine block.

Hope it is nothing serious that requires an engine pull. I helped with one, a 428 out of a Unique Cobra and helped with the reinsertion of a new engine with the body on. Not fun, but, definitely do able.

Ralph

[Jim Harding]

My own experience with the FE FelPro "print a leak" intake manifold gaskets has been for it to be sucked into the intake port and flooding it with coolant. Some will manage to seep into the oil pan past the piston rings. With my latest adventure, there was no evidence of coolant passing from the water passage into the lifter valley. Not to say it can't happen, but I'd check to see if the #'s 1,4,5, or 8 cylinders are wet or dry. Pull the spark plugs and blow compressed air into the spark plug hole ( w/both intake and exhaust valves closed. If nothing but air comes back out of the hole, then you can rule this out. Also, if the the cylinder wall is cracked, a leak down test will prove or disprove this too. Just make sure the piston is bottomed out in the cylinder. But a blown head gasket will fail a leak down test too.
Good luck, and here's hoping it's nothing more serious than a gasket or a seal somewhere causing your problem.

[robbinsshkr]

Thank you all for the advice on things to try. I sent s/a an email telling them what was going on. I know their not in on sunday, but it'll be on their computer when they walk in the door in the morning. Is it common for the intake gasket to be sucked into the intake port very often??I was gonna tighten the intake bolts, but I can't get a pressure tester until tomorrow from work. I don't want to make any changes until i pressure test the cooling system so i'll know what does what, if anything after its been tightened up. First thing i'll do is talk to s/a and see what he has to say.
What is your alls thoughts on possable bearing damage? it's never been "reved-up" and only taken up to a high idle since i've had it. I don't want to pull the engine and / or remove the body again. I'll let you know what Bill says or anything else that I find out.
Thanks again,
Eddie

[eliminator]

Like others have said, call SA first thing before you start any kind of tear down. A lot less headaches, it's their baby.

[Brent]

Ed that sucks.
Do you have a pressure test assy for a radiator? It goes in place of the radiator cap and has a hand pump on it with a gauge to check leak down. If you want to borrow one I can help.

If it is a head gasket you could run a compression test and see if you have a cylinder leaking. I have one of those too.

What ever you need it's free and a phone call away.

[Naumoff]

Ed,
Pull the valve covers and then you can look down into the lifter galley where you will see antifreeze if the intake gasket is leaking. The water passages are at the front of the intake where they usually leak.
The might not have re-tighten the intake bolts after they ran the engine on the stand.

But as Rick says, "the engine is still their baby."

I used Victor intake gaskets on the last rebuild with no issues.

[robbinsshkr]

[quote]
Do you have a pressure test assy for a radiator? It goes in place of the radiator cap and has a hand pump on it with a gauge to check leak down. If you want to borrow one I can help.


That's what that was??? I seen that at your house a few years ago, but I thought it was one of those pe_i_ pump things and was afraid to say anything
You know I'm just kidding [I hope] We have one at work that I'm gonna take home tonight providing someone hasn't broke it since I used it last. I appreciate your offer and may take you up on it, I will let you know asap, Thank you! Let me ask a stupid question....Is there enough room to put a leak down tester in the back cylinders due to the foot boxes? It looks like changing those plugs would be a chore. any secret to it?

[robbinsshkr]

I wrote this once, hit submit and got kicked off for some reason. Anyway, here's the scoop. I spoke to Bill at s/a, he said they have had 7 out of ??? heads that have cracked due to the cnc porting allowing water to get in places its not suppose to be. for the record, bill said the cnc problem has been resolved with no further issues. Bill asked if i was willing to do a little diagnosing and checking, letting him know what i find out. If it is a cracked head, he will send his engine builder to Indiana to make the repairs. If its something worse like a cracked cylinder he will send his guy to pick up the car, make the repairs and return it within 2 weeks. He could have said "send the engine to GA and i'll fix and return it to you" I guess Bill knowing what a pain in the rear pulling the engine is, along with his wanting to maintain a good reputation, he is fulfilling his obligation and then some. I hate to see the car gone for any amount of time, but i admit i was not looking forward to pulling the engine myself and i'm sure this is not the first engine they have pulled out of a cobra. True, these engines cost a lot of money and should be warranted, especially with it only having a couple of hours on it, most of which was on s/a's test stand, but i feel bills offer was very fair and a very good gesture on his part. Problems are going to happen and things are gonna break, thats just the mechanical nature of any material object. I don't expect s/a to do anything more than they are doing. He is taking care of the situation and his last comment on the phone to me this morning was "We're gonna do what ever it takes to make Eddie happy" I hate that any of this ever happened, but I am well satisfied with what he's doing about it. I'll let you know what problems are discoverd.
thanks,
Eddie

[Jim Harding]

Bill at SA is known to do his best to keep his customers happy. The only thing I would ask him to do (other than fix the thing) is to use Victor Reinz intake gaskets. Besides myself, I've not heard a good story about how great the fel-pro intake gaskets are. From what I have heard, they work great on an engine that gets periodic tear downs during a racing season. They just last long in a street environment.

[Slither]

Good to hear that Eddie. Keep us posted as to your progress, and good luck with it.

[Naumoff]

Bill at SA is known to do his best to keep his customers happy. The only thing I would ask him to do (other than fix the thing) is to use Victor Reinz intake gaskets. Besides myself, I've not heard a good story about how great the fel-pro intake gaskets are. From what I have heard, they work great on an engine that gets periodic tear downs during a racing season. They just DON'T last long in a street environment.

Fixed it for you Jim.

I second the Victor Reinz intake gaskets.

[Jim Harding]

Thanks Bud.....