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Thread: Engine & Cooling

  1. #1
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    Apr 2010
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    Navarre, Florida
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    Engine & Cooling

    I'll start with the engine:
    Brent, co-owner of B2 Motorsports LLC (email brent@b2motorsportsllc.com ), who is an expert in engine, clutch and transmissions. I saw some of his posts (and there is a ton of them) where he was very responsive with his advice and knowledge (and time to type it all in!). I contacted him and he helped me put together the right drive train package (i.e., tranny/clutch/bell housing combination) for the engine I intended to buy from the Engine Factory.com. He was so engaging, knowledgeable and accessible. I soon learned he’s an expert engine builder. I got references and called them….. In the end, I hired Brent to build me the engine. I pick up the engine on July 8th at the dyno shop. The TKO600 Transmission, clutch kit, bell housing and short shifter were drop shipped to Unique Motorcars.

    On the engine front, I went with a complete turnkey engine. . I shopped around on the Internet and I narrowed my choices to several local shops and a large US supplier. In the end I went with Brent at B2 MotorSports. Brent is also very active on the Club Cobra forum, along with other Ford forums. Brent completely customized the engine specifically at my request (with lots of help and insight from him). Brent will match your engine & cam, trany gears and rear end gear ratio to suit your specific driving needs. When I pick up the engine on July 8th, I’ll witness the dyno and final tuning. I'll tell you how it runs in the car in several months.
    I’m going with a new DART IronEagle Sportsman block (rated for 1200 HP) based on the Ford 351W engine block size/shape (which allows a lot of “bolt-on options)…. Dart blocks are “beefier” with extra iron in all the right places that allow more cubic inches than a Ford OEM 351W block…. Therefore, my DART block will be bored and stroked to 427 cubic inch and produce about 575 HP and 575 ft/lbs of torque. I have a separate engine thread where I’ll go into more details and post the dyno sheet. For as light a car as the Cobra, about 2400 lbs, this combination is more than enough power/torque, this will maintain the true Cobra engine 427ci but in a smaller size, less weight than a big block, improved handling and many, many options that bolt on to the 351W. It was very important to me to have a 427ci, but I don’t care that I don’t have a Big Block 427, i.e, a small block 427 is just fine and has more options & will make more power. The small block should work just fine for what I want and in the end, shouldn't hurt resale value.

    My parts list with Brent, B2 Motorsports LLC was:
    Final Part ItemFinal Part NumberDart IronEagle Sportsman 351W Block, 9.500"31355235Scat 4340 Crankshaft, 4.000" Stroke4351C50Scat 7/16 4340 Rods, 6.200"ICR6200-7/16Wiseco Forged PistonsPT065HSClevite Main BearingsMS1010HClevite Rod BearingsCB663HN, CB663HN1AFR 205 Heads1450Comp Cams Solid Roller Cam35-000-9Comp Cams Solid Roller Lifters838-16Stainless Steel Bolt KitMelling Select Oil Pump10833Felpro Rear Main SealBS40592Felpro Oil Pan GasketQS30214CARP Oil Pump Drive Shaft154-7901ARP Crank Bolt150-2501ARP Cam Retainer Bolts250-1001ARP Oil Pump/Pickup Bolts150-6902ARP Flywheel Bolts100-2801ARP Cylinder Head Bolts154-3603Ford Racing Timing SetM-6268-A302Trick Flow Hardened Pushrods21408250RAM Flywheel1507Comp Cams Roller Rockers19044-16Ford Racing Fuel Pump EccentricM-6287-C302Edelbrock Super Victor Intake2924Weiand Water Pump2510OEM Ford Timing CoverMoroso Oil Pan, Dipstick, Pickup20501CVR Gear Drive Starter5055Quick Fuel Q-Series CarburetorQ-950Fuel Block Off PlateComp Cams Polymer Distributor Gear35100MSD Distributor8578MSD Coil8202MSD Coil Bracket8213Ford Racing Distributor ClampM-12270-A302Tuff Stuff 100A 1-Wire Alternator7068RAM Clutch Kit98769TTremec TKO 600 short shaffTCET 4617SSLakewood Bellhousing15200
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    Last edited by mkassab; July 22nd, 2010 at 11:18 AM.
    427 S/C, Flame Yellow, B2 Motorsports 427ci Stroker Dart SBF, TKO600, 3.73 Posi, Avon tires and so much more.

  2. #2
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    Apr 2010
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    Engine add ons

    Here's a few pictures of some add-ons:
    Accusump pre oiler, fuel pump and filters, custom CNC machined header flanges for 1 7/8s header pipe, header to side pipe CNC flanges, fuel line to carb and regulator. For the Ignition, I went with a MSD 6AL-2 programable
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    Last edited by mkassab; June 28th, 2010 at 04:46 AM.
    427 S/C, Flame Yellow, B2 Motorsports 427ci Stroker Dart SBF, TKO600, 3.73 Posi, Avon tires and so much more.

  3. #3
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    Apr 2010
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    284

    Airlift Coolant system

    Adding coolant.... the best system I've ever seen..... AVOID those "start-up" hot spots.

    Here’s the Proper way to fill a cooling system using the Airlift System

    Detailed Description:
    The Problem: Airlocks in the cooling system of today's vehicles have become a prevalent problem. They can be caused by the positioning of the radiator at a level equal to or lower than the engine. Upon refilling with liquid, air is trapped in the cooling system reducing circulation. This results in overheating, added installation time and other problems. While OEM's have attempted to address this by installing air bleed devices on the cooling circuit, they are still plagued by airlocks

    The Solution: The UView Airlift system purges those problematic airlocks, checks for vacuum leaks and then allows the technician to refill the system quickly and easily.

    The Process: 1) Connect your shop air to Airlift & pull vacuum 2) Check for leaks 3) Insert refill hose in container of antifreeze, watch the cooling system fill within seconds


    Google UView Airlift Cooling System

    Here’s an Amazon.com link to buy http://www.amazon.com/UView-550000-Airlift-Cooling-Checker/dp/B0002SRH5G

    Here’s a video on it use from the Engine Factory
    http://mustangengines.com/Techvideos.htm then click video #17 ” Proper way to fill a cooling system”
    Last edited by mkassab; June 27th, 2010 at 11:59 AM.
    427 S/C, Flame Yellow, B2 Motorsports 427ci Stroker Dart SBF, TKO600, 3.73 Posi, Avon tires and so much more.

  4. #4
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    Apr 2010
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    Navarre, Florida
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    Canton Oil System diagram

    Here's my oil system setup.... all Canton parts, 2 oil filters, a oil thermostat to control flow through the oil cooler, check valve and the accusump.
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    Last edited by mkassab; June 27th, 2010 at 12:14 PM.
    427 S/C, Flame Yellow, B2 Motorsports 427ci Stroker Dart SBF, TKO600, 3.73 Posi, Avon tires and so much more.

  5. #5
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    Cooling fans control & fuel pump safty switch

    Cooling fans... ah, the hot south... I ended up with the two traditional pusher fans and then added a large pull fan behind the radiator. You notice in my electrical diagram, I have a switch on the dash that will be "ON" as the normal setting, but the ground will be conntected to a sending unit that monitors the water temp. When the temp reaches 200 degs or higher, the sending unit switch will engage and cause the fans to get grounded, therefore, turn on. You'll note in the picture a second sensor in the package. This is a safty shut-off switch for the electric fuel pump incase of an accident. The way it works is if the eng stops, and no oil pressure, the sender switch is opened and the power is killed to the pump. At eng startup, with no oil presure, the sender passed power from the starter to power the pump.... so, while starting, power from starter to pump, you make oil presure, which in turn closed the sender switch to power the pump from the normal "on" power vs the starter.
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    Last edited by mkassab; June 29th, 2010 at 04:54 AM.
    427 S/C, Flame Yellow, B2 Motorsports 427ci Stroker Dart SBF, TKO600, 3.73 Posi, Avon tires and so much more.

  6. #6
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    Apr 2010
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    Engine Build Q&A?

    If anyone wants to get into the details of the engine build you have several options?
    1) (preferred). Post to this thread so all can benefit. Either I or Brent (or anyone reading the thread) will respond, answer, or debate
    2) Contact Brent direct email: brent@b2motorsportsllc.com
    427 S/C, Flame Yellow, B2 Motorsports 427ci Stroker Dart SBF, TKO600, 3.73 Posi, Avon tires and so much more.

  7. #7
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    Dart 427W link and writeup

    I just found this site that might be useful to someone considering a DART block

    Here's a highlighted paragraph:
    The Dart block replicates the original Ford 351W in terms of basic design and layout, but with several enhancements. Cylinder walls and decks are beefier, allowing much more custom machining latitude. The block also features priority main oiling system. The block material itself is much more rigid (high nickel alloy content iron block) and much more suited to high performance and/or racing applications. The main caps are machined billet steel, anchored with four bolts each (with splayed outboard center caps). The block also requires the use of a crankshaft that features Cleveland-sized (2.749”) main journals for added robustness. In short, Dart re-engineered the 351W block to meet today’s performance requirements. Basically, the Dart block makes the original Ford W block look like the skinny kid on the beach. Dart’s block is a brute, which basically blends the best from both the Windsor and Cleveland designs, along with Dart’s own performance enhancements.

    http://www.precisionenginetech.com/p...t-427w-part-1/
    427 S/C, Flame Yellow, B2 Motorsports 427ci Stroker Dart SBF, TKO600, 3.73 Posi, Avon tires and so much more.

  8. #8
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    Portsmouth, VA, USA.
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    Talking

    I like your valve covers. I looked them up but couldn't find them in "tall" only stock height. Did they fit over your roller rocker arms or did you have to use a spacer? You have the same engine set-up as me so if they fit yours...
    Bill Stradtner, Portsmouth, VA
    427 S/C #9442
    427W Dart "Replica" Ford Engine

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by sllib View Post
    I like your valve covers. I looked them up but couldn't find them in "tall" only stock height. Did they fit over your roller rocker arms or did you have to use a spacer? You have the same engine set-up as me so if they fit yours...
    Height is no problem..... look at the end view. From my research, they only come in tall! No spacer needed. They also have the oil "splash guard" baffle... it was very hard to find a SBF valve cover with 427 on it... I guess because there aren't many SBF 427s? In any case, Ford Racing just came out with these covers because they now offer a SBF 427 base on a beefed up BOSS block. One of the key features I like (other than the 427) is the top of the cover has two surfaces with one going “horizontal” and the other parallel to the heads. I attached an end shot picture...
    Mark
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    Last edited by mkassab; June 30th, 2010 at 06:19 AM.
    427 S/C, Flame Yellow, B2 Motorsports 427ci Stroker Dart SBF, TKO600, 3.73 Posi, Avon tires and so much more.

  10. #10
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    Bill ... I should have included the link to where I got the valve covers. When I ordered them, this was the only site I found that could get them. I'd think you could find elsewhere by now?

    Mark

    http://sitesearch.cjponyparts.com/se...27+valve+cover
    427 S/C, Flame Yellow, B2 Motorsports 427ci Stroker Dart SBF, TKO600, 3.73 Posi, Avon tires and so much more.

  11. #11
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    Portsmouth, VA, USA.
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    I found them on the Ford Racing site, Summit, and Jegs. The last two were cheaper but didn't include the bits and pieces to make them work; Ford did. I'm using unsigned Edelbrock Elites now and the more I look at them the more I don't like them. I also went with a stud kit and T-bar hold-downs. Besides giving the engine a cool vintage hotrod look that makes it a snap to get the valve covers off to adjust the valves.
    Bill
    Bill Stradtner, Portsmouth, VA
    427 S/C #9442
    427W Dart "Replica" Ford Engine

  12. #12
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    Mark,
    I know I'm way out of my depth here and I'm sure you have this covered, but just in case.... You said "When the temp reaches 200 degs or higher, the sending unit switch will engage and cause the fans to get grounded". Is there truly a switch on the sending unit, one that is designed to handle the current of a motor - or two? The sending units I'm familiar with can't handle that much current, but are capable of pulling in a relay which handles the current of the motor.

    Ciao,
    Gary

  13. #13
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    correct Gary... it will ground a relay.
    Mark
    427 S/C, Flame Yellow, B2 Motorsports 427ci Stroker Dart SBF, TKO600, 3.73 Posi, Avon tires and so much more.

  14. #14
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    Shepherdsville, KY, USA.
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    B2 Motorsports LLC

    Mark,

    I just talked to Brent this AM, didn't realize he was so close to me.
    His operation is in Simsonville, Ky that is very close to Louisville, KY.
    Will have to run by and talk to him some time. Good to have Ford engine builders in KY.
    Rick
    427 S/C , 427 Side-oiler, 4 Speed Close Ratio Top Loader, 3:73 Gear
    #4279405

  15. #15
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    Rick, Brent is the real deal with it comes to engines, trans, etc. I just spoke with him an hour ago.... he called fromt the Dyno shop.... the first pulls from my new engine are showing ~560HP at 6200 RPM and ~530 torque. Tomorrow morning I meet him there, witness the finall tuning, etc and load it up and take to Maurice and Alan..... I'll post the actual spec sheet they give me.

    Mark
    427 S/C, Flame Yellow, B2 Motorsports 427ci Stroker Dart SBF, TKO600, 3.73 Posi, Avon tires and so much more.

  16. #16
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    Hope you are having a good trip, Mark. Let us know how it goes...
    Paul

    289 USRRC
    1964 289 5-bolt block
    Toploader and 3.31 rear

  17. #17
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    Well, I'm in the hotel in Gadsden with my "dyno'd" engine. If was fun watching the process, e.g., valve adjustments, carb jet changes, etc, etc. They ended up de-tuning a bit to make it better for street use. I ended up with 560 peak torque at 4400 RPM and 562 peak HP at 6500 RPM. I'll scan the spec sheet over the weekend and post it. When the car is on the road, I plan to take it back to the dyno and see what HP is at the back tires hitting the road. Looking forward to seeing Alan and Maurice tomorrow...

    included a few picts of the eng on the dyno.

    Mark
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    Last edited by mkassab; July 8th, 2010 at 05:28 PM.
    427 S/C, Flame Yellow, B2 Motorsports 427ci Stroker Dart SBF, TKO600, 3.73 Posi, Avon tires and so much more.

  18. #18
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    here's the dyno sheet
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    427 S/C, Flame Yellow, B2 Motorsports 427ci Stroker Dart SBF, TKO600, 3.73 Posi, Avon tires and so much more.

  19. #19
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    Your making good numbers Mark.

    -Geary

  20. #20
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    Yes, I felt very good about the numbers and several factors didn't help either.... like the temp as 98 degrees., very humid and his large size headers were damaged and we had you use the smaller more restrictive headers. With the AFR 205 heads, they have a second larger 3" bolt pattern that allow larger header pipe to be used. I bought the larger header and side pipe flanges and Maurice is going to use 1 7/8" pipe. I also upgrade to the high performance mufflers. Speaking of mufflers (sound) during the dyno test, I went outside several times to hear the roar of the new engine... both at idle and during the high rev. pulls... very sweet.
    Mark
    427 S/C, Flame Yellow, B2 Motorsports 427ci Stroker Dart SBF, TKO600, 3.73 Posi, Avon tires and so much more.

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