One for Alan / Maurice

[TurnpikeBoy]

Zipping along down the roads is a joy unfolding (now 505 miles)but braking is a mighty effort. Speaking with Maurice once, he said Wilwood has some softer pads available, with attendent shorter lifespan (like, 12K miles). Better their shorter lifespan than mine - would you know the part # they catalog these pads under?? [xx(]

Yeehah

[Brent]

I am glad you asked this. I have the same problem with mine. I find myself downshifting all the time to help slow down.

[Brent]

I am glad you asked this. I have the same problem with mine. I find myself downshifting all the time to help slow down.

[weaver]

Wilwood sells a polymatrix pad that works better than the stock pad, part #7112D, also make sure your bias is adjusted and the bias shaft is loose side to side.

Alan

[weaver]

Wilwood sells a polymatrix pad that works better than the stock pad, part #7112D, also make sure your bias is adjusted and the bias shaft is loose side to side.

Alan

[TurnpikeBoy]

[:P]<img src=images/icon_speech_ok.gif border=0 width=17 height=15 alt=Insert Speech Icon: OK>Thank you, Alan! I've been playing with the bias bar and, while better, it still takes a real beefy push to get 'im to stop. Almost afraid I'll tear out the pedal ass'y.

Other than that, you couldn't chisel the grin off my puss.:D

Yeehah

[TurnpikeBoy]

[:P]<img src=images/icon_speech_ok.gif border=0 width=17 height=15 alt=Insert Speech Icon: OK>Thank you, Alan! I've been playing with the bias bar and, while better, it still takes a real beefy push to get 'im to stop. Almost afraid I'll tear out the pedal ass'y.

Other than that, you couldn't chisel the grin off my puss.:D

Yeehah

[eliminator]

I have the same problem, I am at 470 miles and mine has the big brake package. I have also adjusted the bias bar and you have to stand on it to get it stopped. I down shift more than I normally would. There is no way I can lock the tires up, my Harley stops alot better. There is not problem going fast it's the slowing down that bothers me.

Eliminator

[eliminator]

I have the same problem, I am at 470 miles and mine has the big brake package. I have also adjusted the bias bar and you have to stand on it to get it stopped. I down shift more than I normally would. There is no way I can lock the tires up, my Harley stops alot better. There is not problem going fast it's the slowing down that bothers me.

Eliminator

[eliminator]

Maurice/Alan,
You guys should stock the Polymatrix pad....looks like there is a NEED. Is the P/N 7112D for the standard brakes or big brakes?

Eliminator

[eliminator]

Maurice/Alan,
You guys should stock the Polymatrix pad....looks like there is a NEED. Is the P/N 7112D for the standard brakes or big brakes?

Eliminator

[jhaynie]

I've been fighting this one for a few months also. Has anyone taken the pushrods off of each respective cylinder and tested the brakes one end at a time (front only, then rear only)? I was starting to think I've got a problem with either one of the systems.
Oh, and Alan, you may want to look at the wording in the assembly manual. I was trying to loosen the nuts on either side of the balance bar to adjust brake pressure, where actually you loosen the jam nuts on the pushrods and thread the pushrods in and out to adjust the balance bar position. Keith had the same misunderstanding.

John H

[jhaynie]

I've been fighting this one for a few months also. Has anyone taken the pushrods off of each respective cylinder and tested the brakes one end at a time (front only, then rear only)? I was starting to think I've got a problem with either one of the systems.
Oh, and Alan, you may want to look at the wording in the assembly manual. I was trying to loosen the nuts on either side of the balance bar to adjust brake pressure, where actually you loosen the jam nuts on the pushrods and thread the pushrods in and out to adjust the balance bar position. Keith had the same misunderstanding.

John H

[eliminator]

John,
You actually do loosen the jam nut on brake bias adjuster, not the pushrod jam nut. The brake bias adjuster moves in a horizontal plane, left to right, right to left to exert more or less pressure on each individual master cylinder(Front or Rear). Best way to understand this is to go to Wilwood's web site and look up adjusting brake bias. Unique can get a Wilwood brake bias adjuster that mounts under or on the dash, you take the jam nut off and mount the adjusting knob and cable, the cable is attached to the passenger side of the brake bias adjusting shaft, has click adjustments and you turn the knob L or R to adjust the bias from front to rear. About $50.00 I think.

Eliminator

[eliminator]

John,
You actually do loosen the jam nut on brake bias adjuster, not the pushrod jam nut. The brake bias adjuster moves in a horizontal plane, left to right, right to left to exert more or less pressure on each individual master cylinder(Front or Rear). Best way to understand this is to go to Wilwood's web site and look up adjusting brake bias. Unique can get a Wilwood brake bias adjuster that mounts under or on the dash, you take the jam nut off and mount the adjusting knob and cable, the cable is attached to the passenger side of the brake bias adjusting shaft, has click adjustments and you turn the knob L or R to adjust the bias from front to rear. About $50.00 I think.

Eliminator

[rdorman]

The school of 'been there. done that'.

I have an older Unique that used Jag/GM brakes with Girling master cylinders and a Neal peddle assembly.

No matter how hard you pushed on the peddle you could not lock the tires. And that was with street tires! When I switched to the Hoosier TDs I couldn't even come close. Manual brakes take some getting used to. Plus the brakes would fade only half way through an autocross.

I have been through every possible combination and have finally come to a finished product. Months of math!!!! But the car will not have its first road test until next week. If you are coming to the Fling, we can talk. I will let you know how it turns out but on paper it is all good! I should be able to do a 1.2 stop with 84 pounds of peddle pressure. Of course on typical street tires you will never get any where near 1.2 g's so the lockup pressure will be a LOT less. The pads that come with most wilwood setups are by no means the highest coeficient of friction you can get. If you are looking to reduce peddle effort, go to a higher coeficient of friction pad. In regards to peddle effort a higher coeficient of friction pad has the SAME results as a 'big brake kit'. Sales guy at the speed shop didn't mention that one did he? They both increase brake torque. If you can lock the tires, you have enough. From there it is just feel/effort and fade. There is much more to this story.

http://www.wilwood.org/PolyMatrix%20Catalog.pdf

Balance bars are widely misunderstood! You MUST be sure that the balance bar does not bind under pressure. The balance bar is in a tube on the neal assembly and if not adjusted it will bind in the tube changing the pressure distribution back from where ever you had it to 50/50. This can be bad. With the parts available it is almost impossible to design a system to be 50/50. Mine on paper is about as close as it come. 214 pounds to the front, 209 to the rear. That is CLOSE. Turn the balance bar towards the cylinder that you want more pressure. Find a nice large lot and two friends. Have them stand in the braking zone (not in front, but besides!) and have them watch to see what tires are locking first. You want the front to lock first. Keep checking for balance bar bind by pressing the peddle in hard with your hand while you watch.

Before I pat myself on the back for a job well done, I need to road test. On paper everything looks great. The peddle travel is down to about 1.5 inches and it then turns into a brick wall. Just the way I like it. I have gone to Wilwood brakes, just on the front, and not the big brakes either so more than likely you can stick with what you have and you can make them feel right to you. Details to come!

Rick

[rdorman]

The school of 'been there. done that'.

I have an older Unique that used Jag/GM brakes with Girling master cylinders and a Neal peddle assembly.

No matter how hard you pushed on the peddle you could not lock the tires. And that was with street tires! When I switched to the Hoosier TDs I couldn't even come close. Manual brakes take some getting used to. Plus the brakes would fade only half way through an autocross.

I have been through every possible combination and have finally come to a finished product. Months of math!!!! But the car will not have its first road test until next week. If you are coming to the Fling, we can talk. I will let you know how it turns out but on paper it is all good! I should be able to do a 1.2 stop with 84 pounds of peddle pressure. Of course on typical street tires you will never get any where near 1.2 g's so the lockup pressure will be a LOT less. The pads that come with most wilwood setups are by no means the highest coeficient of friction you can get. If you are looking to reduce peddle effort, go to a higher coeficient of friction pad. In regards to peddle effort a higher coeficient of friction pad has the SAME results as a 'big brake kit'. Sales guy at the speed shop didn't mention that one did he? They both increase brake torque. If you can lock the tires, you have enough. From there it is just feel/effort and fade. There is much more to this story.

http://www.wilwood.org/PolyMatrix%20Catalog.pdf

Balance bars are widely misunderstood! You MUST be sure that the balance bar does not bind under pressure. The balance bar is in a tube on the neal assembly and if not adjusted it will bind in the tube changing the pressure distribution back from where ever you had it to 50/50. This can be bad. With the parts available it is almost impossible to design a system to be 50/50. Mine on paper is about as close as it come. 214 pounds to the front, 209 to the rear. That is CLOSE. Turn the balance bar towards the cylinder that you want more pressure. Find a nice large lot and two friends. Have them stand in the braking zone (not in front, but besides!) and have them watch to see what tires are locking first. You want the front to lock first. Keep checking for balance bar bind by pressing the peddle in hard with your hand while you watch.

Before I pat myself on the back for a job well done, I need to road test. On paper everything looks great. The peddle travel is down to about 1.5 inches and it then turns into a brick wall. Just the way I like it. I have gone to Wilwood brakes, just on the front, and not the big brakes either so more than likely you can stick with what you have and you can make them feel right to you. Details to come!

Rick

[brfutbrian]

i dont think i paid more than 30 bucks for the wilwood bias adjustment knob setup in my car. took about ten minutes to install. its definatly worth installing. brian

[brfutbrian]

i dont think i paid more than 30 bucks for the wilwood bias adjustment knob setup in my car. took about ten minutes to install. its definatly worth installing. brian

[jhaynie]

I'm all confused now. The picture I got off of Wilwoods website shows the pushrods at different positions. That is where I got the idea to adjust pushrods. I threaded the tube back and forth several times and got no affect, and gave up on that a long time ago. I was careful to leave the 1/4" of play in the clevis like they reccomend. I don't know where to go from here. Anyone close to Augusta an expert on these?

John

[jhaynie]

I'm all confused now. The picture I got off of Wilwoods website shows the pushrods at different positions. That is where I got the idea to adjust pushrods. I threaded the tube back and forth several times and got no affect, and gave up on that a long time ago. I was careful to leave the 1/4" of play in the clevis like they reccomend. I don't know where to go from here. Anyone close to Augusta an expert on these?

John

[jhaynie]

The pushrods in this picture don't look adjusted. I don't see this kind of movement in the threaded rod when I'm adjusting my system. Maybe this picture is exagerated.

Johnhttp://www.uniquecobra.com/uploaded/jhaynie/BALANCE BAR PIC.gif

[jhaynie]

The pushrods in this picture don't look adjusted. I don't see this kind of movement in the threaded rod when I'm adjusting my system. Maybe this picture is exagerated.

Johnhttp://www.uniquecobra.com/uploaded/jhaynie/BALANCE BAR PIC.gif

[rdorman]

The peddles in that picture are adjusted. Front and rear master cylinder piston travel is different most of the time. As you go through the peddle travel a properly adjusted bar will move the ends from front to back and the other side, the other way around by an even amount. For instance if with no pressure on the peddle one end of the bias bar is 1/4 forward, at full pressure it should be 1/4 towards the rear.

How much your will travel depends on many things. I know mine doesn't travel anywhere near as much as the one in the picture.

You adjust the brake pressure by threading the balance bar, not by adjusting the pushrod length. You adjust the pushrod length to ensure the balance bar does not bind in the tube.

By the way, first road test on the reengineered brake system. One word, incredible. Some 'track' time this weekend and I will know what they are capable of.

Rick

[rdorman]

The peddles in that picture are adjusted. Front and rear master cylinder piston travel is different most of the time. As you go through the peddle travel a properly adjusted bar will move the ends from front to back and the other side, the other way around by an even amount. For instance if with no pressure on the peddle one end of the bias bar is 1/4 forward, at full pressure it should be 1/4 towards the rear.

How much your will travel depends on many things. I know mine doesn't travel anywhere near as much as the one in the picture.

You adjust the brake pressure by threading the balance bar, not by adjusting the pushrod length. You adjust the pushrod length to ensure the balance bar does not bind in the tube.

By the way, first road test on the reengineered brake system. One word, incredible. Some 'track' time this weekend and I will know what they are capable of.

Rick

[eliminator]

Here's another on the brak bias adjustment.

Eliminator

[clayfoushee]

I did get the new Wilwood Polymatix pads from Unique and they're better, but not dramatically different.

Clay

Unique 9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD