improved braking?

[casaleenie]

What is available to improve braking for the Unique 289 Wilwood front brakes? Fifteen in Compomotive wheels... Are there pads, rotors, calipers that can be changed out that would make the car stop better?

Any helpful hints would be appreciated....

Thanks in advance

AL

[pgermond]

Al - you probably have already consider this, but you might send an e-mail to http://www.wilwood.com/ and ask their advice.

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[clayfoushee]

Al,

Have you adjusted the brake pedal bias bar so that it's at least 66% front/33% rear? That can make a huge difference.

The Weavers are recommending a different Wilwood pad now, and you also have to make sure they seat properly. After installing the new pads, Maurice told me to do a near panic stop from about 60mph, and then let them cool. He said if not seated properly when new, they will never perform as well as they should. The combination of the bias adjustment and the pads now installed on the new Uniques made quite a difference on my car.

When I talked to Wilwood about it, they tried to talk me into a brake upgrade to the larger discs. But, then you can't run 15" wheels.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[GeorgiaSnake]

Al I would try different pads first assuming you have the bias correct. These cars should stop better when you consider the car weight and size of the brakes.

Randy

Unique 289 FIA
Southern Automotive 396
Team III 16's
Brilliant Silver

[clayfoushee]

I could be way off on this observation, but I think a lot of people have forgotten about the amt. of pedal effort it takes to stop a car w/ manual vs. one with "power" brakes. Since every modern car for years has been produced with some sort of power-assisted braking system, I think we've all forgotten that you really have to put your leg into the pedal on a manual system. It can fool you into thinking you're brakes aren't working well, when in fact they're working quite well, if you really hammer the pedal.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[GeorgiaSnake]

Clay I'm comparing my brakes to some of my past cars which didn't have any brake assist. These cars out of the box have ok brakes, I think it is the pad compound. I have been working mostly on my Holley and will tackle the suspension and brakes next. I still love the car just want more :D

Randy

Unique 289 FIA
Southern Automotive 396
Team III 16's
Brilliant Silver

[clayfoushee]

Randy,

I don't disagree with you. My braking is much better since I replaced the '98 vintage pads a few months ago with the newer ones recommended by Maurice. The first thing I did after installing them was seat them the way Maurice recommended (semi-panic stop from 60mph on a deserted country road). It made quite a difference.

But, I just purchased a professionally-done 66 Mustang GT-350 clone, converted to discs all the way around, but no power-assist. It's about the same as my Unique, even now, and I've experimented with putting a lot of leg into both of them, and they actually stop pretty well. I can make my Unique lock all four at the same time if I really stand on it. It's an effort, and my legs aren't 25 yrs. old anymore. I really have to exercise them to make both cars stop very quickly. After being spoiled by "power brakes" for 25 years or so, I think a lot of people may have forgotten that.

I must do more leg lifts, I must do more leg lifts.......

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[GeorgiaSnake]

At my age you are happy to lift your leg - one step at a time.

Unique 289 FIA
Southern Automotive 396
Team III 16's
Brilliant Silver

[rdorman]

Casaleenie! You did not come to me? Anyways, can you lock all four wheels (not by stabbing them but by applying them until they lock up)? If so, you have all the brakes you can use (fade with standing) for your setup. Do the front tires lock just before the rear? Then your balance is good. If both of those are OK, what is it that you don't like?
Rick

[Brent]

Clay what pad did Alan suggest? I ran Wilwood Polymatrix pads on my last race car but I don't know how they would work on this.

Part # ???

Brent

[clayfoushee]

Brent,

I didn't save the box, but they were Wilwood Polymatrix pads as recommended by Maurice, and he sent them to me from Unique's inventory last fall. Since your car is new, that's probably what it came with. My car was built in 98, and they were using a different pad then.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Brent]

I will check

Thanks
Brent

[casaleenie]

Rick D,

I tried to sneak on by you.. I should have know better....
I can't lock up the brakes... Bias seems ok but I'm assuming that because the car does a little dip forward on hard braking... When I had it to Jaguar for the broken suspension bolt the mechanic took it for a ride and commented on the lack of adequate stopping power..
I don't beat on it too bad so I figured to be OK with what I had...
Now I figure it's time to do something about it...
The guys on this forum have given me some things to check and I'll start there.

I'm up on Kelleys Island and the e-mail is casaleenie@cros.net
Looking forward to seeing you in a couple weeks for Frank F's thing in Columbus... Let me know the dates...
I'll send you the info on the COPS and RODDERS thing when I get back to town....

thanks
al

AL

[clayfoushee]

Al,

Look in the pedal area at your brake pedal. You'll see a a horizontal bar across the pedal with two rods attached to it going into the fire wall. The one on the left is connected to your front brakes, and the one on the right is connected to the rears. If that bar going across the pedal is not 2/3 exposed on the leftmost (driver's side), your bias is probably not adjusted enough on the front. Some people run almost 3/4 of the way in the driver's direction.

If you can change a light bulb, you can easily make that adjustment yourself. It's just a matter of loosening and tightening a couple of nuts, on screwing that bias bar toward the drivers side of the car. That puts more pressure on the front brakes when you hit the pedal.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[rdorman]

No matter how hard you push you never can lock any of the wheels? Time to get the bar-bells out of the attic!

Seriously though. Neither front nor rear ever lock (dry pavement)? Assuming the systems is functioning and adjusted correctly you need to create more brake torque. You can do this by: increasing rotor size, increasing peddle ratio, increasing pad coeficient of friction, decreasing master cylinder size, increase calper piston area.

Obviously, the easiest thing is to increase the pad coefficient of friction. I think the pad they are recommending is the new Q pad which has about a .05 higher coefficient of friction than the standard T pad. The other pads you have to ask wilwood about, they can be VERY dusty. That is a increase in CF of about 12%. The E would probably be even better but I don't know how dusty it is. If you have the stock rear calipers, then the EBC greensstuff pad is a good street pad.

Al, even you can adjust the balance bar! I have confidence in you! On dry pavement, in large empty area with tires properly inflated. Get the car up to say 50 and stand on the brakes. Don't stab them. Have an observer help to determine which set of wheels lock up first. If it is the front, turn towards the rear master cylinder until they lock first. Or visa versa. Get is so the front lock up just before the rears.

Rick