Clutch adjustment

[glenn]

Hello everyone,
Not sure how my clutch should be proply adjusted. Are their any guide lines to the adjustment? I get a little vibration in first gear when starting out.Otherwise no problems with first to secnod or into reverse,but alittle vibration in backing up.This is a 4 speed toploader coupled to a 406 FE. Any coments would be appreciated.
Thanks, Glenn

[pgermond]

Glenn,
It sounds like you have the same setup as mine. I had to use some spacers between the bellhousing and hydraulic. I fought it and fought it, but finally got everything dialed in. The only guideline I used was to have enough "play" in the rod that goes to the clutch arm to insure the clutch was completely engaged. You mentioned vibration, which sounds like perhaps something else might be going on. Does it shift into first and reverse okay?

For me it was strictly trial and error. Good luck.

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[GeorgiaSnake]

I have been going through the clutch adjustment for a while. Mine was slipping in 3rd and 4th under WOT. I took the pushrod out and ground off the end until it was short enough to be sloppy when adjusted all the way to the short end. This allows for fine adjusting to get the proper release. It only needs to disengage the clutch a very small amount.

If you have chatter or vibration and it is not slipping or causing gear clash it is probably not the adjustment.

Randy

Unique 289 FIA
Southern Automotive 396
Team III 16's
Brilliant Silver

[eliminator]

Some of these clutches and pressure plates chatter a little when starting off in 1st gear, not much you can do about it except try a different brand clutch and pressure plate.

Rick

[souzape]

Glenn- I had the same problem with my clutch and fought it for about a year. I have a SA 351C with a toploader. I recently had the car up on a lift (to re-adjust the clutch and replace a bent actuating psuh rod) and discovered two problems. One, the slave cylinder/push rod was slightly out of line with the clutch arm and two, the bracket for the slave cylinder deflected slightly when the clutch pedal was depressed. I had a reinforcement plate welded to the original slave cylinder bracket and re-drilled the mounting holes to get things lined up. Also replaced the push rod with a heavier modified grade 8 bolt. The chatter has disappeared and the clutch is smoother than it ever was. If you replace the clutch assembly, make certain that the new parts are compatible with the hydraulic actuating system. Alan mentioned to me that many diaphram clutches will not work with our set-up (mine has a long type clutch). Confirm before you buy new parts. PHIL SOUZA

[dmiller]

i have a different setup than most, i think. i'm using a mustang bell housing and aftermarket "centerforce" clutch. the mustang original used a pull cable to release the clutch by pulling the release arm forward. i'm using a wilworth slave cyl that "pulls". it is attached to the motor mount bolt and seems to work very well. of cource, the DMV is keeping my mileage from being excessive, since they still haven't issued tags. but early impression is good.

[Brent]

My clutch will chatter if I slip it in low gear but if I just let the clutch out quicker and do not touch the throttle it chugs away and it is very smooth. Probably the 2800 lb. pressure plate ?

Brent

[gasman]

My clutch started slipping in third and forth as you accelerate. 2,400 miles on the car. Is the plate worn out or does it need adjusting?

Steve Foushee

[Jim Harding]

Steve,

Usually the plate will be OK,... it the friction material on the disk that gives up the goast.

But that's doesn't mean 100% of the time....

First, if the clutch disk isn't toast (yet) check the free play in the clutch fork at the point where the slave cylinder rod meets..... you should have 'some' free play (no pressure on the fork) when the clutch is engaged. Lack of free play has the same effect as "riding the clutch", the clutch plate is not pressing as hard on the disk, so it slips when the you have more engine torque than can be passed through the clutch.... this will really wreck a clutch disk, plate and flywheel surface too... so hopefully you found this problem before too much damage has been done.

Hope this doesn't ruin you weekend....

- Jim -

Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004
http://www.capitalareacobraclub.com/albums/album26/1aLeftside.thumb.jpg

[excelguru]

Guys - Here's what mine does:

First of all, if I adjust the slave cylinder pushrod to the point where the fork arm would actually be loose (or even close to loose), the clutch would not release enough to allow shifting into 1st and 2nd. So there is always some amount of force against the fork arm.

When the clutch is depressed, the slave cylinder's pushrod moves only 9/16". I did bleed the system (or at least I thought I did).

I was having some issues with shifting into 1st and 2nd recently, so I bled the system (no fix). Then I started lengthening the pushrod by VERY small incriments. Adjust, test drive. Adjust, test drive. I eventually went too far (shifted great but slipped). Now I'm going back the other direction. I think I'm almost there, but I wonder why all of this happened in the first place. It was fine until one night when something felt like it "let go".

When traveling (clutch fully engaged), I can sometimes hear a whining or small rattling noise from the clutch (throw-out bearing giving up the ghost, perhaps?).

Maybe I should schedule an emergency clutch replacement between now and Thursday morning??? Hmm...

Keith :)
Unique Motorcars (http://www.uniquecobrareplicas.com)
Southern Automotive (http://www.southernautomotiveengines.com)
Bruce Bunn (the painter) (http://www.jodecoautobody.com)

My Photo Album (http://members5.clubphoto.com/keith355593/owner-429c-1.phtml)

[Jim Harding]

Keith,

If you can't get enough slave/fork travel to allow some free play AND provide full disengagement, a new clutch (I don't think) will solve your problem. I'd dive into the travel issue first. Master/slave matched up? You mentioned air already. Maybe the master and/or slave cylinder just worn out?

- Jim -

Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004
http://www.capitalareacobraclub.com/albums/album26/1aLeftside.thumb.jpg

[gasman]

Pulled the transmission this afternoon. The clutch is completely worn out and the fly wheel is cracked. No problem, the fine folks at Southern Automotive have boxed up the parts and I will have them in my hands tomorrow by noon. I sure am glad this happened yesterday instead of Thursday!

Steve Foushee

[jhaynie]

Steve,

Man isn't it great buying one of these cars used and you get to find all of these neat suprises. Brake pedals falling off, rear bearings going out after 3000 miles, brake master cylinders failed, clutch fork bolts shearing for no reason, cracked flywheels, worn clutch plates, etc, etc, etc.[:o)][:o)][:o)].

Oh well, they sure look cool, and help dress up the mechanics shops while they are in there.:D

I should have mine back Wednesday or Thursday morning. Nothing like waiting until the last minute. I hope I didn't overlook the next major failure this past weekend.

John

Unique 289FIA #9367
351W Fuel Injected

[eliminator]

Well on second thought I might as well, Clutches/Flywheels/and Pressure Plates.
If I had to do it over again, at the time I ordered my engine I would have spent some time in this area. Billet Flywheel, steel 28# McLeod (or Aluminum Billet), a 3 finger McLeod Pressure Plate, and McLeod Disc. I did pull my clutch to put ARP Flywheel bolts in, glad I did as I wasn't satisfied with the 390 truck flywheel, changed to a Billet Steel McLeod, 28# and had it zero balanced, just wish I would have finished up with the clutch disc and pressure plate. SA uses a new clutch disc and pressure plate but it's not up to holding the torque on the 427 engines, my opinion. I have heard of numerous failures. Mine doesnt slip yet, but if you were to run the car hard, track events, ect. it would. Pain in the @$$ to change. Just do it right the first time and it will never come back to bite you in the a$$. All these engines need a better clutch then the ones supplied. Centerforce and Haas makes some good stuff too. My thoughts.

Rick

[clayfoushee]

Wow....the more I learn about FEs/clutches/flywheels, etc., the scarier things get. Even though everything has been bulletproof since I acquired the car, when I hear stuff like this along with Gasman's experience, I halfway wonder if I shouldn't have it torn into and checked.....if I want to keep my legs, etc. intact [:O]

Burnouts are not gonna be as much fun anymore......:(

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Brent]

I am running a Mcleod Billet aluminum flywheel, Mcleod 2800 lb three finger plate, and a Hays street/strip disc. So far I like the set-up and the drivability of the combination.

Clay if you use new parts and good quality fasteners with the proper torque and good ole locktite everything should be ok. I hope nobody in here has a factory cast bellhousing.Certain places in a car where money is no object.

Brent

[clayfoushee]

My problem Brent and Rick, is that I don't know what parts were used on the clutch and flywheel or what was done to it, or how it was mounted. I just know everything is working well right now.

Although the car was originally built in 98 with an SA 428, that motor blew up and was replaced with the current SO, but not from SA. The previous owner is considerably more clueless than I am and can't answer those questions. I do know who built the engine, but he didn't do the engine/trannie mating and installation.

At that time, I bought the car, much like my brother, I had no clue what to check into.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[spd4me]

You know I've had the same clutch slave cylinder problem. Mine won't go into reverse unless I turn off the motor and put in then start motor. I'm only getting 1/2" throw out of my Lockheed slave cylinder. The problem may be using a 3/4" master cylinder pushing on a 1" slave. I got a Wilwood pull slave and am in process of mounting to frame. This will give me a 1-1/4" throw. I was hoping to have done by this Friday but time is running out.

[Brent]

Clay,

If the trans has been in the car since 98 and you dont have any issues with it I would say the "installer" did it right. The slave cylinders or the hyd. throwout bearings are VERY dependent on the set up. If its right, its right . If it is not, it will be a pain in the a$$ from the get go and never let you forget it.

Brent

[WBofTN]

Something I have found:
When I start getting a little first gear shutter, I change out the hydraulic fluid and things seem to get better.
Just a thought and it may be mental. I use that hi-temp stuff, but I still think those fluids
cook sitting right above those pipes.
Wes

'93 Unique 427/351W/4sp

[excelguru]

quote:Originally posted by Brent

Certain places in a car where money is no object.


You got that right!
1. Blow-proof bellhousing
2. Fire extinguisher
3. Drive shaft safety loop

(EDIT) - Just now realized there was a 2nd page here... the mechanic told me that the 9/16" throw-out was not (necessarily) the problem. Apparently, these things don't need much travel to disengage. The real problem is that they are touchy and sensitive to initial set-up. I still wouldn't mind having more travel, though.

Do you have the info on that Wilwood slave cylinder? I might look into that after this weekend is over.

Keith :)
Unique Motorcars (http://www.uniquecobrareplicas.com)
Southern Automotive (http://www.southernautomotiveengines.com)
Bruce Bunn (the painter) (http://www.jodecoautobody.com)

My Photo Album (http://members5.clubphoto.com/keith355593/owner-429c-1.phtml)

[Jim Harding]

I use the Wilwood "pull" type slave. This thing is prone to pre-mature failure if it isn't installed correctly. This thing wants to pull STRAIGHT back. There is a convex fitting supplied with it that HAS to mate in a concave mounting. This will allow the cylinder to self align itself so it pulls straight as the angle of the movement changes when pulling on the clutch fork. All the problems I have heard of are the result of poor/ridgid mounting. However you fabricate the mount, make sure you machine in a concave mating surface. Get a ball mill to mate with the convex fitting and grind away. Also, drill the hole for the slave rod oversize so the convex/concave surfaces can move around. Mine has been on my car for over three years now without any issues. And I get just a tad over one inch of travel using a 3/4 master.

- Jim -

Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004
http://www.capitalareacobraclub.com/albums/album26/1aLeftside.thumb.jpg

[gasman]

I didn't see Rick and Brent's comments until after I had acquired my parts from S.A. My car had a steel flywheel and an 11" clutch. I bought a McLeod Aluminum flywheel and went with a 12" clutch. Bill Parham sent a Pioneer clutch, pressure plate and throwout bearing. It will be reassmembled and ready to road test this afternoon. I am also draining the oil while it is on the rack to calibrate my dip stick. We shall see.

Steve Foushee

[eliminator]

Wes,

Your on the money on fluid changes. I also use the Wilwood Hi-Temp, just changed all of mine, brakes and clutch. The clutch fluid was much darker than the rest. The heat abuse it takes is unreal. Change it every year and you wont experience the problems. The HTOB is monted on the transmission so the fluid gets much hotter than a slave cylinder set up.

Rick

[gasman]

Uh Oh, it scares me that Rick read my parts list and didn't comment...

Steve Foushee

[excelguru]

Here's the latest...

[B)]Cracked flywheel
[B)]Pressure plate needs replaced
[B)]Clutch needs replaced
[B)]Bushing needs replaced
[B)]Intake gasket needs replaced

So how's YOUR day going... [V]

I'm leaving work early to grab the camera and drop by the shop. I'll snap some pics and grab more details while I'm there. I'll be in Gadsden. Just don't know if the Cobra will be with me. :(

Boy, do I need a vacation...

Keith :)
Unique Motorcars (http://www.uniquecobrareplicas.com)
Southern Automotive (http://www.southernautomotiveengines.com)
Bruce Bunn (the painter) (http://www.jodecoautobody.com)

My Photo Album (http://members5.clubphoto.com/keith355593/owner-429c-1.phtml)

[WBofTN]

You never here of a flywheel cracking - and wham - twice in one day?????
Wes

'93 Unique 427/351W/4sp

[clayfoushee]

Hmmmm......something very strange going on here. Are Steve and Keith's shops owned by the same guys...... I too thought cracked flywheels were pretty rare events.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Brent]

Keith,
A couple of things to have the shop check:

1)Excessive endplay on the crank shaft from a worn or improperely installed thrust bearing

2)Wrong flywheel or balancer. Motor out of balance. 390,406,410,427ci are all internal balance. A 428 balances externally. Make sure you have the right flywheel for your combination.

3)Proper torque on all flywheel bolts and a flat smooth flange on the rear of the crank.

Sorry about the luck. I hope you can make it with your car.

Brent

[clayfoushee]

OK, here's another question for the FE wizards. Is it possible to have a cracked flywheel, with the clutch working fine and free of any other symptoms? I'm not sure I want to hear the answer.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[gasman]

I am not a wizard, but I would say the answer is yes. I wouldn't worry about it too much. When your clutch does fail and it will in time, just make sure the shop replacing it checks for heat related stress cracks. I'll bet if we magnafluxed every flywheel made of steel, chances are great most have some degree of cracking.

Steve Foushee

[patrija]

What is the deal with Homecoming and Clutches??!

I got home early this evening to give the cobra a bath and quick coat of wax and when I jump in the clutch goes straigh to the floor. Look underneath the car and all the fluid has drained onto the floor. Jack the car up (again - had it up pretty much all last week), refill and bleed the clutch and all seems ok again. I guess we'll see tomorrow if I find fluid on the floor again. Not sure what this is, all was good before I got the car on jackstands last week for some other work - argh! :D

[pgermond]

Hi guys,

I've been out of town due to a death in the family and am just reading up on this topic. Either I am just damn lucky, or the hammer is about to drop. As I said back on page 1, for me it was just trial and (a lot) of error getting my clutch linkage dialed in, but it is working perfectly now. I usually drop it in neutral at a stop as I have found, if I don't, the clutch heats up after a long drive and reverse is tough to get to. I have a Pioneer set up from SA also, and when that goes I'll change to something else. But for now, all is well. Probably 'cause I'm not going to make it to Homecoming :(:(:(

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[gasman]

Well its been a long week, and I've certainly learned alot about my car. We got the new clutch assembly in, started it up and the first depression of the clutch caused the slave cylinder to fail. The flex line coming off the slave cylinder had a 360 loop in it that was so close to the header, it caused the fluid to cook. The fluid coming out of that hose looked like oil with 100,000 miles on it! [xx(] We rebuilt the slave cylinder and flushed the system completely, replacing the fluid with Wildwood High Heat fluid, which is rated to 570 degrees. It rained like crazy this afternoon, so we will have to wait until tomorrow morning for a test drive. I'm a little uneasy about loading the car in the trailer without knowing if it is up to the tasks planned for the weekend. I guess I'll find out if it is fixed when I get to Gadsden. I figure it couldn't be in a better place to break. ;)

Steve Foushee

[ToyCollector]

Holy Cow on all these issues and sorry to hear about them. I am concerned the Pioneer setup in my car will also be a weak link, but my understanding is that they are the only ones who make a clutch to fit a big input spline. Anyone else hear the same thing?

[spd4me]

Hay Jim
I made a bracket out of 1/2" steel that will be welded to the inside of the frame under seat. I made the two end brackets where the slave arm goes through wide enought to add washers so I can adjust the side to side alignment. When I drill the hole through the clutch arm I'll make it wider so as the arm moves back on an arc it won't bind. I've taken a 3/4" steel ball, cut in half and drilled hole through for slave rod. The only way to cut and drill a steel ball is to heat until red, let cool for two days, cut, drill, reheat and put in water to harden. One thing that seems to really help is I covered all my brake and slave lines with "Thermo-Shield" 2000 degrees protection before I hooked up the lines to cylinders.