Overheating

[casaleenie]

I just discovered that the toggle on the dash controls both the front pair of fans and the large radiator fan... Should the large fan be running all the time? I thought I was turning on the front fans as an assist and that the large fan was always running..

I have no fans unless they're both running at the same time...



AL

[clayfoushee]

Al,

Uniques come only with the dual pusher fans in front of the radiator. That large fan was added by someone else later on the same circuit. If you haven't blown a fuse yet, you may be OK. Most of these cars stay cool without the fans as long as they're moving, but it's good practice to turn it on as soon as you hit a stoplight before the temp. starts climbing.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[nolastyankee]

Al,
The high pressure air through the radiator overcomes any value the fans provide when the car is moving. Granted this depends on speed, but anywhere above 15+ mph should do the trick. I would leave the fans on any time the car is running. It's not like you'll hear them at speed anyway...

Unique 9122 - 289 FIA Cobra - The Legendary "Spence" Car

[rdorman]

My switch acts as a manual override to turn them on. Don't yours come on automatically once the car gets to warm?
Rick

[clayfoushee]

Rick, you can certainly wire them that way with a thermo-controlled automatic switch, but on most of the Uniques I've seen, the fans are wired manually, and they only come on when you turn them on. My car runs about 160F without the fans at any speed above 15mph or so, and it's become a learned habit of mine to turn them on everytime I hit a light. But Nolastyankee's solution is the foolproof way of avoiding an overheat because you forget.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Tony Radford]

Al, I would definitely add a thermo-relay. They're very cheap at Pep Boys etc. It's much better if the fans come on before temp gets very high. I never think about mine due to the auto on/off. Typically, my fans will run for a minute or so after I shut down. I feel that it helps evacuate hot air from the engine compartment (maybe a non issue, but it feels good).

427SC, Torch Red / white stripes
427 Windsor Stroker from Southern Automotive
Delicious example of Beauty + Power.

[casaleenie]

I replaced the thermostat with a 180 degree. Can't tell what was in it originally... Fired it up today and it seems to be staying pretty even at 180 but the outside temps were only in the high 40's.
Nolastyankee is correct that the fans don't make any difference when the car is moving but when I stop the temps take off.

Tony,
Going to chase down that thermo relay...

Dorman,
No the fans don't come on automatically.

Clay,

The relay should help with the overheating at a stop...

Any thoughts on the 180 degree stat?

AL

[pgermond]

I have mine wired so they both (puller (16" SPAL) and pushers) come on together. No thermo-control at this point, as I haven't seen the need. Runs fine in 90 degree temps as long as it's moving. Otherwise the toggle is only a flip away from cooling the engine down.

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[clayfoushee]

Al, there are different schools of thought on thermostats. I just prefer to stay cooler with the 35 year old FE I'm running, so I'm staying with 160 in it, but it immediately shoots to 200 or above when you stop if you don't turn the fans on. Southern Automotive engines also seem to come with 160 stats, unless I'm mistaken.

It's definitely going to heat up immediately if you don't remember to turn on that switch. Obviously leaving the fans on, or installing a thermo relay will save you (and your engine)from yourself. I just got in the habit of flipping the switch everytime I stop, and it's second nature now, so it hasn't been worth the trouble to me to add a thermo relay....maybe at some point, I'll be too old to remember:D

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[casaleenie]

Temps are going into the 70's this weekend so I'll get a chance to see where I'm at with the 180 stat. No problem putting a 160 in if necessary... Put some Water Wetter in it last season and it cooled it off about 30 degrees and was running at speed in the 140's. Thought that might be a little too cool... Damned if I do and damned if I don't.[B)]

AL

[gasman]

Al, I don't know what motor you are running, but, the folks at Southern Automotive do not recommend using thermostats in their 427's. In fact they suggest if you use one that you use one with a hole knocked through it. There really isn't a need for one unless your car is cold natured or you have a heater and I doubt that you've installed one. The water wetter should keep things cooler.

Steve Foushee

[Jim Harding]

I can understand not using a thermostat under some conditions, but for a street engine that you want to last more than a few thousand miles, the use of a thermostat will improve the life of the engine.

Without a thermostat AND a very efficient cooling system, the engine will probably never reach a stable operating temperature over 160 degrees. In fact, the hotter the engine gets the more efficient it becomes, up to a certain point where the high temps begin to degrade engine parts. Operating temps for our "old" tech engines should be in the range of 180 to 200 degrees I've been told. This allows engine parts to expand and settle into proper clearances, and thus provide less friction and wear on the parts. It also allows the oil to come up to a temperature that will help it evaporate moisture and fuel byproducts.

One thing to keep in mind, the thermostat establishes the MINIMUM operating temperature. If your cooling system is very efficient, you should see the temperature run right at the thermostat setting. When the efficiency of the cooling system decreases, running temperatures will climb and fluctuate between the thermostat setting and some higher temperature that will be determined by how much heat can be removed by the radiator, which is also related to how much cooler airflow can be passed throught the radiator/heat exchanger. Most of our cars fall into this category, and that's why we see the different (higher) temps depending on how fast we're going down the road, whether we have our fans on or off when we have to stop at that traffic light, and even in the materials that make up our systems.

But, it's your car and you can do what you want right?;);):D



Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004
http://www.capitalareacobraclub.com/albums/album26/1aLeftside.thumb.jpg

[rdorman]

Jim, I think I was going to type the exact same response you just did!

Al, sounds as though the old stat was bad. Did you change it yourself? Proud of you man! The automatic fan stat are cheap (<$30) and easy to wire. Have at it!

Rick

[pgermond]

Ditto what Jim said. I have an SA FE and use a 160 thermostat. Under normal conditions the temp gauge is stuck on 160-170. When I was a kid I used to run my engines without a thermostat simply because I couldn't afford one (use to take FOREVER to warm them up) [8D]

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[casaleenie]

Rick,

When is that show that Frank F. is putting on? And where is it?

Gasman,

351 Windsor from SA (410)

AL

[rdorman]

Here is the link Al: http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=50590

Remember folks. This is for CF and it includes all types of cars!

Rick

[Brent]

I have a 190 thermostadt in my FE now. I have tried a 160, 180 and now the 190 and the motor likes the 190 the best. The difference between the 160 and the 190 is dramatic.

Brent

[dmiller]

i think the fuel injected cars want a 190 degree thermo

by the way, the Louisiana says that they have all the paper work in correct form now, and shouldn't be more than a couple more weeks. 10 + weeks todate.


doug

[casaleenie]

quote:Originally posted by Brent

I have a 190 thermostadt in my FE now. I have tried a 160, 180 and now the 190 and the motor likes the 190 the best. The difference between the 160 and the 190 is dramatic.

Brent



Brent,
To what degree is it dramatic? Are the effects of temp the same on a SB as a BB?

AL

[Brent]

The motor idles cleaner, the throttle response is better,and the motor burns the fuel more completely when the combustion chamber in the head is warmer. As I am sure most of us do, I have aluminum heads,aluminum intake,aluminum water pump, and an aluminum radiator. The changes in temp will be eratic if the thermostadt is too low or (god forbid) if someone does not have a thermostadt at all. Condensation in the oil is also reduced when the motor stays at a constant temp.

I have probably jinxed my self and my car will overheat on the saturday cruise in Gadsden.

Brent

[casaleenie]

Brent,

Makes sense... going to stick with the 180 for at least a little while.
I'll carry the lower stat just in case..


thanks...

No Jinx

AL

[gasman]

Okay, everyone has weighed in on not having a thermostat isn't a good idea. Brent, why do you suppose Southern Automotive (builder of most of our motors) recommends not using one? I am well aware they are in the business of building motors, but they do offer a warranty on them.

Steve Foushee

[pgermond]

Steve,
I think I agree with Brent on the higher-consistent temp, and will probably exchange mine for a higher temp if I don't experience any problems this summer (starting my winter project list in April!) . I have an SA FE and installed a 160 thermostat, as well as drilling a whole in it just in case. I believe the reason Bill recommends not using one is that they are prone to fail (not open) if the engine isn't run on a regular basis. The first thing I do when I fire this monster up is check the oil pressure gauge and watch the temp to insure the termostat opens in a reasonable amount of time - if not, it will be shut down immediately. As for SA's warranty... 90 days ain't all that much.

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[gasman]

My car has a thermostat with a hole in it and reaches 155 after running 5 minutes. It will easily hit 160 after ten minutes. If I sit in stopped traffic or a light for more than four or five minutes, I'm up to 180 sometimes 195. That is plenty warm enough to deal with internal condensation issues. SA located in McDonough, GA. is pretty close to Augusta, GA. and maybe you guys are experiencing cooler operating climates than my fair city has to offer, but I gotta think the "father" of our motors knows more about what thermostat to put in them more so than any of us do. If anyone knows why this is bad advice, I'd really like to hear why.

Steve Foushee

[pgermond]

Steve,

You have a valid point, whether Bill is referred to as "father" or "doctor" (as on CC), or whetever... the guy definitely knows his stuff. However, those engineers designed those stats for a reason, so... well, I got one in mine, and that's my story and I'm sticking to it :D

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[clayfoushee]

Steve,

As I originally said when I first responded to Al's question about thermostats many posts above, "there are many schools of thought about thermostats." This thread and all the different responses here has certainly proven the point.

Everybody here who has weighed in has a valid point. Under optimum conditions, for an everyday street motor, you'd like to see a consistent 180-190 at normal operating temp. But, it's also true that overheating is a killer, and on a very expensive engine like an FE, you never want to see that happen. It's all about choices and compromises, because there is no optimum solution for every application and various set-ups.

So for my money, I'm sticking with the 160 stat and Bill Parham's standard practice. I have no trouble getting the engine to 180, 190 whatever, by controlling the fans, and I'd prefer to err on the side of not overheating or having a thermostat stick closed. In my own application, my engine idles great, runs great, has no problem with throttle response, and if it ain't broke I'm not fixing it.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Jim Harding]

On the subject of having a hole drilled in the thermostat.....

It's been explained to me that this small (usually 1/8") hole is just for passing the air trapped in the block/heads during initial fill up of the coolant. The thermostat needs to "feel" the coolant in order to open, so any air that is trapped in the area of the thermostat can prevent the thing from sensing the temperature and opening when it's programmed to. And you're supposed to position the hole at 12 o'clock for best results.

I don't recall the name, but there is a thermostat on the market that is not supposed to stick closed when it fails. Anyone have any info on this one?

- Jim -

Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004
http://www.capitalareacobraclub.com/albums/album26/1aLeftside.thumb.jpg

[casaleenie]

Had the car out today...Temps were in the low 70's. Made it a point to get stuck in traffic... Rolling the temps were between 180 and 190.
Stuck in traffic with both pusher and puller fans running----temps were between 200 and 210 indicated on guage. Once back rolling it dropped between 180-190....

AL

[JerryBP]

I have been told that all newer thermostats are suposed to fail in the Open position and a lot of them have a bypas hole to keep air from being traped behind them.
You may be able to not use one in the warmer climates but up here where the snow flies we will use one.

ps, Sold my Pantera, on it's way to CA.

Work in Progress, Unique 427-9429 400+hp 351C Tremec 3550-2 5spd Coal Black
by Bruce, Greg & Jerry Porter Caldwell, Ohio

[clayfoushee]

Al, as long as they stay there you're OK.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[bittentoo]

I've stayed out of this one as long as I can:D

First, all of our engines need a thermostat. Ford engineered the engines to operate at a given temp for reasons already covered here. The engines from the 60's and 70's need a 180* thermostat. The 194* thermostat is for the fuel injected engines of late.

Second, running a 160* thermostat will not keep an engine from overheating. Overheating is a result of the cooling system not being able to remove the heat stored in the engine and water.
Casaleenie, if the temps are in the 70's and your temps climb into the 200's at idle with all of the fans running, the problem is not your thermostat. You don't have enough cooling capacity vs your engine size, be it that you still don't have enough air flow, radiator to small, or fouling in the radiator.

Third, when I have had a Ford thermostat fail, it has always been in the open position. The only indication that it had failed is that the engine would not come up to temperature. Now Chevy thermostats on the other hand have failed closed on me with bad results[xx(]

Feel better know:D

[clayfoushee]

Thanks Bitten,

I've been confused on this subject since I acquired my car. You hear so many different opinions. The one thing that really confuses me is why does Southern Automotive install a 160 stat?

I have no trouble getting it to 180 and above in stop and go traffc and at idle, and the fans keep it below 200, but it quickly drops back down to 160 at cruise.

But, I'm about to run out and find a 180 stat.......I think....maybe.....we'll see.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Poorboy]

Bill is old school, wants the engine to run as cool as possible. I think he beleaves every car is going to be driven wide open on a race track all the time.

[Brent]

My engine builder is .....me. And he says to run a thermostadt.

I think Bill is on CYA mode. If it were his own engine I bet it would not be without a thermostadt.

Just my .02 cents worth.

Brent

[clayfoushee]

Thanks Poorboy....you've been around SA engines for awhile, and your explanation sounds credible.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Poorboy]

Brent,
That is one bet you would lose. I have had this discussion with Bill and he realy don't beleive in using a thermostat.

Poorboy

[clayfoushee]

Poorboy,

Fascinating.....so you see why people like myself are so confused? SA has been in business for a long time, and it's difficult for those of us who know nothing (other than what the so-called experts tell us) to have any idea who to believe when we hear conflicting stuff like this.

It's been appropriately pointed out that no stat or a 160 stat. won't keep you from overheating.....very true in a standard application. Around here, I'm in gridlock or stop and go traffic no matter where I go, even on the freeway, and can easily spend 10 minutes or more idling without moving.

Unless I'm missing something incredibly obvious, while I'm completely stuck in gridlocked traffic, it would seem to me that the fans have a better chance of keeping it from overheating if they start from 160, than they do if they start from 180. In addition, I'm running an almost 40 year old "collector's item" block that's been stroked to 454, so those old FE walls are already thinner than designed. I wonder if Ford's original guidance still applies 40 years later.

Bill must know something in his years of dealing with these antique blocks.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Jim Harding]

quote:Originally posted by clayfoushee



Unless I'm missing something incredibly obvious, while I'm completely stuck in gridlocked traffic, it would seem to me that the fans have a better chance of keeping it from overheating if they start from 160, than they do if they start from 180. In addition, I'm running an almost 40 year old "collector's item" block that's been stroked to 454, so those old FE walls are already thinner than designed. I wonder if Ford's original guidance still applies 40 years later.


Clay,

You are correct to some extent..... it will take the engine longer to heat up to 200 degrees if you start from 160 rather than 180.... simple physics at work here;)

But once you hit 200, it's the radiator that has to remove the heat. Many factors at work here, radiator material, air flow, amount of coolant capacity of the radiator, ambient temperature, .. on and on. One thing you have going against you is just the two pusher fans.... these are what I would describe as marginal at best. And the thinner walls will transfer less heat to the coolant than a block with a standard bore. If I were you, I'd install the largest puller fan that I could fit behind your radiator. This will move a lot more air through the radiator and will increase it's ability to reduce the coolant temperature going back to the engine. Keep the pushers as usable or cosmetic, but let the puller do the bulk of the work.

This might go against your principals of trying to keep the car as original as possible, but it will give you some piece of mind that you're not going to overheat while stopped in traffic.

- Jim -

By the way, do you still need a hand with some of them chores?



Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004
http://www.capitalareacobraclub.com/albums/album26/1aLeftside.thumb.jpg

[Brent]

Poorboy,

That is interresting. Bill really is Mr. FE and his reputation as a builder as well as someone that takes care of his customers after the sale is second to none.
The 427 is a high nickel thin wall casting and maybe Bill wants to keep the cylinder walls as cool as posible ??? Who am I to guess? What he does works.

Brent

[clayfoushee]

Jim,

You're right, of course. I have been considering the 16" SPAL puller fan that Phil G. recently installed, but I'm still concerned about the way it mounts to the radiator with pins between the cooling fins. Alan Weaver said over time, they could wear a hole due to vibration. But, that's about the only thing that will fit between the radiator and front cross member.

Thanks for the offer of assistance. I did manage to get the roll bars swapped out single handedly with a lot of persuading on the old one by a rubber mallet. BTW your idea of using a bottle jack did allow me to spread the new one far enough to get it mounted. I may need a hand (or head) on a couple of others, but I'm about to head out-of-country for about 8 days.



Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[eliminator]

On this subject, everyone has some good points. I have pushers and a SA 427, stock bore and stroke. I run 50/50 water and coolant and a bottle of Redline Water Wetter and a 180 degree thermostat. In 85 degree weather I am OK in traffic and crusing, 180-200 degrees which is no problem. In heavy traffic it will more than likely overheat so a puller fan is the ticket. I just don't put my engine in that position, plus I hate that type of driving and choose my routes accordingly. If someone else wants to do that, great but not me. One thing is that a cooling system has got to be pressurized to work at maximum efficiency, thats means that tiny hose clamp leaks or coolant reservior tank leaks causes engines to overheat. Take care of those minor things first. The 170 degree thermostat would be great if anyone finds one for an FE get 2, one for you and one for me, because I have never found them. A 160 is to cool for an FE, they like some temperature in the intake.

Rick

[eliminator]

One other point on Bill at SA, there has been major debates by other FE engine builders about the thermostat issue in which they all claim he is WRONG. Maurice and Alan have informed him over and over to put 180 degree thermostats in all engines built for Unique Motorcars. Bill's a good guy but he like all of us is not always 100 percent right in his thinking.

Rick

[spd4me]

Hay I couldn't help but read all you'all comments. I like eliminator's comment about choosing your routes. Saturday I'm hauling down the interstate at 80 to 90, come around a bend and boom traffic is a a stand still. Somebody had a wreak. This is when your heart starts beating. Anyway I made it to the next exist and got off. One thing to think about, is Bill Parham recommends removing the center portion of the thermosat. If your using a high flow water pump, need to make sure the thermosat is allowing enough water to pass through it.

[clayfoushee]

Spd,

I know....try to choose my routes too, but when you live in an area like metro Washington, DC (with the second most congested traffic in the nation after LA, it's challenging not to get stuck.

I dread those 100 degree days in July around here!

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[casaleenie]

To bring you up to date....

I,m still showing on the guage that I'm running 210 degrees and then it drops down to 170 in a heartbeat... Will run 180 degrees for resonable amount of time and then jump up... I'm showing a drip leak in the theromostate that I'll fix tomorrow.
Even at the high temps indicated I'm not really sure that it's accurate... When I remove the radiator cap it has no pressure...
Could that little leak at the stat release all that pressure that fast.

How confusing is this posting???

AL

[Brent]

As Rick stated in his post a system under pressure will run ALOT cooler than an open system. If you can remove the cap when the motor is hot you have a problem.

Brent

[jhaynie]

Al, mine does the same thing. It doesn't get all the way to 210 though it opens at around 190-200. It drops like a rock at that point, plummeting to 160 or less. Sounds like your thermostat is doing what it is supposed to, maybe just opening high. I'm sure you've already checked the accuracy of the guage? Use a infrared thermometer on the water pump if you haven't.

John

[casaleenie]

John,

Could you or someone else tuned-in please school me on the infrared temp guage..
Not really familiar with that tool...


regards,

AL

[pgermond]

Clay,

Regarding the SPAL with the pin mounts threw the radiator - I waffled back and forth on whether or not to go that route and finally decided to move forward. I was concerned with the pins rubbing on the radiator tubes so I used heat shrink on them to help insulate the metal-to-aluminum. I don't know how much it will help, but I feel better having done that little extra. I took great care in positioning the pins, check them regularly to insure they are tight, and only run the fan when the temp begins to rise, which is very seldom.

I subscribe to Eliminator's school of thought and avoid routes where heavy traffic and/or excessive stop-n-go is an issue.

Whoever would have guessed this topic would generate FOUR pages (and growing) of discussion!

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[clayfoushee]

Thanks for the additional thoughts Phil. I wish I could subscribe to Elim's "avoid stop and go traffic rule." Not possible where I live.

John Haynie's infrared temp gauge idea is a great one. I've seen them in auto parts stores, and they're not that expensive. I'm told they are very accurate. I think I'll try it to really see what the temp is.


Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[jhaynie]

Here you go Al (gotta love Google).

http://www.infrared-usa.com/default.asp

[spd4me]

AL
I was watching "American Hotrod" and they had a problem with engine overheating. It apparently had an air lock in water pump. I asked Maurice about it and he said if your temp gauge hooks into the top of your intake manifold, you can loosen it and see if fluid comes out or air. Use it like a bleed off valve to get all air out.

[eliminator]

Clay,

Have you ever thought about moving???
My water temp. guage is dead on, verified by infared heat sensor. Infared temp sensors are also excellent on tires to check for inflation problems and alignment problems. Tells you alot of information. Oil temp. at the cooler prior and after, on and on.

Rick

[clayfoushee]

Not for a second.....love my spot on the Chesapeake Bay.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[casaleenie]

John,

Went out and bought the Raytek MiniTemp... I'll play with that for a little while...

CLay,

I'm not allowed on the Chesapeake Bay anymore... It was something about a "duck hunting" misunderstanding... Ducks, Tangiers Island and the Feds.
Told me that they'd appreciate it if I didn't come back...That was back in 76. Haven't been back since....

S4M,

I'll check that out... I'm sure it's a bubble at this stage...




AL

[clayfoushee]

Al, maybe the statute of limitations has kicked in for you:D

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[casaleenie]

Clay,

I'm sure the statute has kicked in but I'm still giving it a wide berth.

The local Game Warden was named Davenport... Angriest white man I've ever seen... What a plick.... they had shipped Federal agents in from the west coast so they wouldn't be recognized and they showed up in shorts with a surfboard... Stupid left coasters...Everybody on the island was named Crockett or Pruitt... What's that all about??? Actually, that was my third trip to the island and I loved it...

AL

[clayfoushee]

Al,

Since, as you know there are no roads to or from the island, and it's a nasty boat ride in the winter time, the Crockett's and the Pruitt's have, for years, had a lot of time to kill in the winter....... No one else seems to show up, so what are they going to do?

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[casaleenie]

You're correct about it being a nasty boat ride...

We were on the trip to the island and the seas were very, very rough.

One of the hunters asked Angel (the Captain) how high the waves were..Angel replied that they were probably 8 to 10 footers.

Just then a wave came over the bow and everything turned green with water. The stove piping blew out of the hull and water rushed in and covered the deck and everyone went quiet.
Thirty seconds later you heard a little voice from the back of the boat say... "Man,I sure hope that was a ten footer". That broke the ice and everyone roared... The hunting expedition went downhill from there..

12 hours later I was standing back on the dock in Christfield,MD with a fistful of state and federal violations...

Oh happy day!



AL

[clayfoushee]

THANK YOU MR. HAYNIE!!!!!!!!

John, I owe you at least a 6-pack of your favorite beverage for mentioning the infrared thermometer idea. I picked one up today, and lo and behold, the temp. at my water pump is exactly 20 degrees warmer than the gauge reads across the spectrum. At 160, it's really 180, 180 is actually 200, and so on.

Why am I stupid enough to keep getting fooled by those SW gauges[B)]? Same with oil temp.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[gasman]

Clay,

Oil temp. means nothing anyway. As long as you have oil pressure and engine temp in operating limits everything is cool...no pun intended.

Steve Foushee

[clayfoushee]

Oh Gasman....you opened yourself up bigtime with that oil temp. comment.:D

But, this wasn't about oil temp. anyway, but coolant temp. I was just happy to find out that 160 on the gauge is really 180, which is actually a proper operating temp, if you've read this thread through carefully.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Jim Harding]

quote:Originally posted by clayfoushee

I picked one up today, and lo and behold, the temp. at my water pump is exactly 20 degrees warmer than the gauge reads across the spectrum. At 160, it's really 180, 180 is actually 200, and so on.
Why am I stupid enough to keep getting fooled by those SW gauges[B)]? Same with oil temp.


I hate to nit-pik, but you have to consider what the tolerance (+ or -) of the reading is. As a rule of thumb, I usually apply 10 percent of the maximum value of the instrument, if there are no specs supplied with the instrument. And that may be generous in some cases:D Having the IR device and the dash gauge agree is probably more luck then anything else:D

Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004
http://www.capitalareacobraclub.com/albums/album26/1aLeftside.thumb.jpg

[gasman]

Clay, It is very possible for ambient and radiant temperature to be two very different numbers. Coolant temperature is more important than the radiant temperature of the metal surrounding the coolant (i.e. waterpump) I'm saying your gauge is probably accurate. I'll bet this comment gets this thread up to six pages!

Steve Foushee

[clayfoushee]

Steve,

I understand the difference, but I'm guessing the gauge is not accurate. The measurements were taken from a cold start, standing still, idling with no fans, all the way up to 200 on the gauge. I took 3-4 measurements at each step, one inch away from the pump, as well as different places on the pump. The difference was a consistent 20 degrees from the gauge even when it was still cool.

If anything, I'd expect the radiant temp. on the pump to be lower than the coolant temp, due to the insulating quality of the metal, but I've forgotten more about thermodynamics than I ever learned.

Jim, I checked the IR device against an oven thermometer (in a hot oven) at the same distance as I took the pump measurements.....very close, within a few degrees.



Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[jhaynie]

Uh Oh, here come the engineers.

Steve, I would have to say that the coolant temperature will equal the surface temperature of the coolant hoses and the area around where the temperature sensor are going to be very close to the actual coolant temperature. Law of thermal equilibrium and all that stuff.

John

[casaleenie]

The IF tool that I bought claims + or - of 2C.




AL

[gasman]

John, you are the PE here and I'm guessing more qualified than anyone else in this forum to render an opinion. Come on guys, we are almost up to six pages.

Steve Foushee

[clayfoushee]

Gasman....and your point is?:D

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Jim Harding]

quote:Originally posted by clayfoushee

. I took 3-4 measurements at each step, one inch away from the pump, as well as different places on the pump. The difference was a consistent 20 degrees from the gauge even when it was still cool.


Clay,

I would expect the pump to be cooler then what is shown on the gauge due to the fact that the pump is seeing coolant returned from the radiator (plus some block heat due to contact), and the gauge is measuring coolant temperature just prior to exiting the engine. When I checked mine, I aimed the IR device right on the thermostat housing, which is inches away from the gauge's probe. The two readings were close enough for government work:D:D:D



Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004
http://www.capitalareacobraclub.com/albums/album26/1aLeftside.thumb.jpg

[clayfoushee]

Jim, thanks, that's exactly where I aimed it. Thus, that 160 reading on my gauge, which I've been worried about as being too cool as it's normal operating temperature is really closer to 180, which is where all the experts seem to feel it should be.

Thus, I'm going to officially cross than concern off my list....heck I don't even need to change the theromstat.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[bittentoo]

Are we there yet[}:)]

[bittentoo]

Come on Clay, you have to pull the thermostat out and see what temp. it is[:P]

[bittentoo]

#$^*@# Still not there yet.....

[Brent]

:D:D Nice try Bitten.

You have to lift the hood to let all the hot air out.

I guess that would be the soft top not the hood :D:D:D

Brent

[clayfoushee]

Actually Brent, it was a pretty feeble effort[8D]. If it ain't broke, I definitely ain't fixin' it.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[eliminator]

You guys definetly need to find something to do. Ever though about Spring Turkey Hunting???
If not how about waxing your frame!!

Rick

[gasman]

Rick, So waxing the frame will help with overheating? Congratulations on being the first posting on page 6.

Steve Foushee

[Jim Harding]

Actually Steve, Rick just hijacked this thread to make it 6...... and I'm sure the discussion about to take place, RE: waxing the frame, should take it another 6[}:)][}:)][}:)]

Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004
http://www.capitalareacobraclub.com/albums/album26/1aLeftside.thumb.jpg

[bittentoo]

Cograts Rick! The prize for winning is that YOU get to buy the first round at homecoming:D Bartender[:o)]

I aint got no stinking soft top!

All of the hot air gets out just fine:D:D:D

[eliminator]

10-4 will do, a beer and some Wild Turkey Nuggets.

Rick

[Brent]

Food and beer! I like this thread more and more every minute.

Brent

[casaleenie]

quote:Originally posted by eliminator

10-4 will do, a beer and some Wild Turkey Nuggets.

Rick



UMMMM, and just where do the nuggets come from the tom turkey???[?]

AL

[pgermond]

It is 7 in the morning here, which means it's 9 or 10 AM where you are at. I have noticed this forum is pretty dead in the evening, but lights up in the early AM here. Do any of you guys work? :D:D:D

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[clayfoushee]

Unfortunately, I'm pretty much chained to my laptop on most days, working out of a home office. When I need a break, I don't have the water cooler or coffee pot to walk to and shoot the breeze. So, this has become my "water cooler."

Also had an unexpected health surprise a few months back. You guys kept me sane and entertained while I recuperated. Everything's great now, but thanks:D

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[Brent]

Clay I thought you owned a Cobra ???

You stated you were sane ???

Brent

[jhaynie]

Just wanted to push us closer to page 7.

John

[eliminator]

Don't work, up early Turkey Hunting, HUNT FOR FOOD.

Turkey Nuggets come from the a Breasted out Gobbler, just fillet the breast, cut into strips, batter, use plenty of Lemon Pepper and fry. All Thur. arrivals can try some, the earlier the better, because by lunch one Gobbler Breast will be GONE.

Rick

[bittentoo]

Rick is right, some of the best eating there is:D Make some white gravy and mashed potatos, oh my:D:D

[pgermond]

We're headed for 7 It's gone from overheating to over eating :D:D:D

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[casaleenie]

Pgermond,

Nope, I don't work... I went into the office one day and decided I'd had enough... as soon as I made sure my employees were taken care of I put the key in the door and called the landlord...
Should have done it five years earlier...
My wife also retired and together we do OK...




AL

[gasman]

Rick, I asked the wife to help me wax the frame and she got overheated. Welcome to page 7.

Steve Foushee

[clayfoushee]

Knowing his delightful wife, I have zero doubts that what my brother just said is true:D.

BTW, what started this frame waxing thing?

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[pgermond]

This has to be a record, huh Patrick? Over heating to over eating to frame waxing...... can't wait to see what's next [:P]:D[:P]

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[eliminator]

Steve,

I dont know if that helped you or hurt you!!!! The overheated part!
Since I was going to wax my frame I decided to drain and flush my cooling system while I was under the car. So there is some benifit to the wax job.

Rick

[Brent]

Wax the frame. Hell, I havent waxed the car yet.

Brent

[Master]

All of you are very entertaining. My car is coming along well, body at paint shop (Bruce Bunn). Long pole in the tent is SA, don't know if I need a trailer for homecoming or not.[^]

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."

[clayfoushee]

This is an "oldie but goodie" that I just read after having an overheating problem for the first time a few days ago. Perhaps it might help some new people.

I had a T-stat stick CLOSED when warming up the car last week in the driveway. It was a very sudden overheat that occurred in less than 5 minutes from dead cold. Fortunately, I caught it quickly and no damage was done. When I pulled the stat it was a 160 degree with a hole drilled in it.

Per, George Anderson at Gessford Machine, I changed it to a 180 stat with 3 holes drilled in it. I still haven't purchased the SPAL, but that's next.

Did a 80 miles cruise yesterday on New Year's and everything was working great. The temps were 180 by IR reading on the water pump (same as before), but the gauge was now indicating 170-180.



Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler (452.1-stroker), top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD