Ammeter

[clayfoushee]

Normally I don't look at the Ammeter very much. It's always been showing a slight positive charge when running where you'd expect to see it. Today, I noticed it creep all the way up to +60 and then immediately fall back down to normal slight pos. charge. Saw it happen one more time, then it just stayed normal.

Any ideas? An SW gauge issue? And where the heck is the voltage regulator usually mounted on a Unique. Couldn't find one anywhere. Is it underneath on the chassis?

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[pgermond]

Clay,

The regulator is mounted to the back of the alternator if yours is the same as mine. A little solid state jobby-do that I bought from Unique. Transpo F7078 VR Ford 60A CONV. Maybe this will help....

http://www.uniquecobra.com/uploaded/pgermond/Voltage Regulator.jpg

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[bittentoo]

Same as on mine. Installed it and works great!

[jhaynie]

My alternator is internally regulated, and has no voltage regulator you can see (unless you take the alternator apart). Maybe that's what you have.

John

Unique 289FIA #9367
351W Fuel Injected

[eliminator]

Little tiny voltage regulator on back of the alternator, about 3/8" thick, about 2"X 1- 1/2". Don' t know how long they last, they are in a place with allot of heat.

Rick
#4279405

[clayfoushee]

Thanks....I think my alternator is the same.

So, you think it may be the alternator going bad?

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[jhaynie]

Mine did that late one night on a very dark backroad between Augusta and Edgefield. It was the regulator. All of the lights would get REAL bright, then they would go completely dim and the car sounded like it was going to cut off. It did this the whole time with me praying we would make it home.

The chrome alternators fail on a regular basis I have heard. Do you have one of those?

John

Unique 289FIA #9367
351W Fuel Injected

[eliminator]

There is no truth to the fact that chrome alternators fail. Many of the chrome alternators fail because they are cheap items. If you get a chrome alternator PowerMaster is one of the best, they are new manufacture and not a rebuilt with a chrome case.

Rick
#4279405

[clayfoushee]

Mine's not chrome, and it's the std. Ford alternator supplied by Unique.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[K.Wilson]

Clay,
I have had three of these regulators fail in the ten plus years I have had the car. They all failed the same way; eratic charging first, then they would "full field" the alternator so it would charge at maximum untill you shut the engine off, after the engine was off it would continue to supply current to the alternator rotor and run the battery down.
I finally gave up and put a GM 60 amp "one wire" alternator with an internal regulator on. You can get a new chrome one on e-bay for $80.00. You will have to drill out the mounting hole from 3/8 to 7/16 and drill and tap the adjuster hole to 3/8 NC. You will also have to make a new spacer as the GM mounting boss is shorter or I guess you could add a stack of flat washers if you wanted too.
It is a perfect solution if you don't mind putting a GM part on your Ford engine.
Keith

[jhaynie]

Or you can get a machine shop to put a 3/8" helicoil on the mounting bracket on the heads. Keeps from having to drill it out.The spacer is required, but just a steel sleeve cut to length.

I have the GM one wire as well. The chrome ones last for 1163 miles. :D Get a powder coated one from Summit.

John

Unique 289FIA #9367
351W Fuel Injected

[clayfoushee]

Thanks Keith....that's good to know.

Should I be concerned that the alternator is bad, or would a quick fix be to just replace the regulator? It is exactly the same as the one depicted in the sketch Phil posted above.

Again, I've only seen the ammeter peg a couple of times, and most of the time it still appears normal. It did just appear Sunday after some heaving idling in city traffic on a hot day.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[pgermond]

Clay,

I purchased mine form Unique - here's an alternative that may save you a few bucks... http://www.falconparts.com/One%20Wire%20Alternator.htm

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[ralphscott]

I'm using a PowerMaster Chrome Alternator and it works fine with 4700+ miles with a really warm engine bay (428). I also have the Transpo regulator. The Part number is 17078 for the Powermaster alternator.

Ralph

[jhaynie]

Next time mine fails, I'll get a powermaster. I always liked the look of the chrome alternator.

Unique 289FIA #9367
351W Fuel Injected

[casaleenie]

Advice????

Lights dim when at idle... twin fans slow down at idle..
351 SA engine... What should the idle speed be set at?

AL
2899386

[Brent]

700 TO 1200 depending on your camshaft, manifold vacume, etc.

Brent

[K.Wilson]

Clay,
The simple fix is to just remove the alternator and replace the regulator with the same kind you have now. The only problem is that it will go bad again. The regulator is so close to the head it can't get rid of the heat and it will eventually go bad again. The regulators cost about $40. and for forty more you can have a new GM with an internal regulator that will be a permanent fix.
If you can't do the drill and tap modification to the GM alternator any local mechanic can for a few dollars.
I would not get the 100 AMP version as the wires in the Unique are not sized for that kind of load.
The only reason I made the change is to keep from having to change the regulator again in the future. I had three fail and I had no reason to believe that another one would not do the same thing.
Hope this helps, Keith

[clayfoushee]

Thanks Keith, Phil, Ralph and others......I think I'll replace the alternator.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[jhaynie]

Mine's 800RPM with a 351W. I would think you too have some sort of regulator/alternator problem. Sounds like it is not maintaining over 12V at idle. Could be alternator speed (pulley problem)? The experts will chime in shortly, Al.

John

Unique 289FIA #9367
351W Fuel Injected

[clayfoushee]

Just looked at the Summit site.....saw the one you recommeded Ralph, but they also have a 170781 part number that's Ford one-wire for a few more dollars.

I take it the one-wire is preferable?

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[K.Wilson]

Clay,
Yes, the one wire is the way to go. All the "one wire" refers too is that it has an internal regulator so you only need to hook-up one wire(the main lead, or large red wire in your case).
If you use another type you will need an external voltage regulator, and that is the reason you are doing this change in the first place.
I have used the GM one wire alternators in several applications and have never had reason to replace one.
Keith


Keith

[clayfoushee]

Thanks again, I wanted to get the car back on the road in time for Lee Dahmer's open house on Sat. where Maurice Weaver is also attending with the 36. I have to be in NYC Thurs and Friday, so I can only do it tomorrow. Didn't have time to do the tapping or helicore mods, so went with the Ford one-wire for a few extra bucks and overnight shipping. Hope it's as reliable as the Chebbie....good idea BTW!

Seems like all of my "issues" happpen just before I'm doing something with car..........

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[gasman]

So don't make any plans and nothing will happen....

Steve Foushee
Unique #4279389

[bittentoo]

That's the smartest thing you've said in a long time, Gas...:D[}:)]

[pgermond]

Hey! Watch it! You are talking about my former agent :D

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[clayfoushee]

No comment on the immediate above.........stop hi-jacking my thread!

OK, trying to remove the old. alt. and the bottom long bolt comes out of the block OK, but it won't back out of the rest of the threaded bottom hole on the alt. and spacer (just turns and turns). So I can't get it off the bottom bracket....it's always something.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[pgermond]

You have backed out of the threads on the block, but now you have to apply some force/pressure to back it out through the spacer. You can wiggle the bolt out with a box wrench or apply some resistance to the back of the hex headnut w/a screw driver (or whatever will fit to push the bolt outward) Just be careful so that when it frees up you aren't under it. Am I forgiven? [8D]

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[Slither]

Correct me if I am wrong, but it appears from the diagram Phil posted that the regulator could be relocated to a cooler space with the simple addition of wire extensions and some careful re-routing. I cannot think of any reason that the regulator must sit on the back of the alternator. The mounting tabs could provide the case grounding (with the black wire), but that could be re-attached at the new mounting point. I haven't looked at the output of one of these, but it is likely that it is simply a poorly rectified DC voltage that is regulated down to around 18V and uses the battery as an output capacitor. If moving it is possible, it might save those regulators that are still on duty and functioning properly. Just a thought for those others that read the thread...

[pgermond]

[?] I'm no electrical engineer by any stretch of the imagination, but my guess is it has some thing to do with the length (resistance) of the wire. Otherwise, remote mounting would be specified as an option [?] Srtictly a guess on my part [?]

Phil

427 Roadster, #4279436
Southern Automotive FE
3:31 and Toploader

Roseville (N.Cal)

[clayfoushee]

Slither...good thought. I was very surprised to find the v-reg. on the back of the alt., about 1/4" from the head.....bad design! It's only a matter of miles until the v-reg will heat soak too many times and fail. Surprised, mine made 4K miles since I've had it, and I don't know if the previous owner ever replaced it.

That's why I decided to go with the 1-wire internally regulated chrome Powermaster 60A alt. based upon the good advice from several above, but an externally located v-reg., might be equally effective if feasible.

Yes, Phil you're forgiven, but I'm gonna have to wait until I can get another set of hands to hold that sucker, while I bang on the bolt and spacer to pull it out. They're hopelessly mated right now.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler, top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[clayfoushee]

New alternator in, works great. One thing I've learned is that walking away when you're stumped and waking up the next day generates new ideas. I was able to persuade the rusty bolt and spacer apart with a punch from behind.

However, I think Keith was right all along about going with the Chevy TRUE internally regulated alt. When my new, pretty, chrome, Powermaster ("Ford" one-wire) arrived today from Summit, I was very disappointed to see the same externally mounted v-reg. bolted on the back, and it's now once again resting about 1/4" from the head. I'd be very interested in the feasibility of running a remotely mounted v-reg.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler (454-stroker), top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[jhaynie]

I think every "original" Cobra had a remotely mounted voltage regulator, either on the wheel well or firewall.

John

Unique 289FIA #9367
351W Fuel Injected

[eliminator]

Clay,

Just run the thing;).
You worry too much, there are several of us with the same set up and no problems:):)
Don't try to re-invent the wheel.;)
Go wax your frame or better yet, polish your new chrome alternator:D

Rick
#4279405

[clayfoushee]

How many miles do you have on your car Rick?;) Mine didn't have a problem either for the first 6K, and my alt doesn't need polishing but everything else does.....no show dawg in my garage:D;)

And why not "reinvent the wheel" when it comes to the old Ford alt. and v-reg. set-up. Everyone else has...............

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler (454-stroker), top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[eliminator]

Butch Capps has over 10,000 (plus track time on several tracks) on his with the same set up. I have 2,600 on mine.
Your problem was probably the SA alternator, a 40.00 rebuilt[xx(], mine lasted 1 week.
Plus I have probably run mine harder than yours;), I don't baby it, if I don't hit 4-6 grand every time I pull it out of the garage there is something wrong:D:D.
Be glad to let you see how this "show dawg" runs, next May??

Rick
#4279405

[clayfoushee]

Rick, I know how good your car runs. Plus, we're all jealous of it with all that frame waxin'and everthing else you do! Mine doesn't come close. But, who doesn't hit 4-6K rpms in a Cobra everytime they leave the garage?:D

It's good to hear that the Powermaster with that same v-reg. does better. I was just surprised it had exactly the same design and the v-reg looks identical. It's the v-reg, not the alt., that appeared to be the weak link to me.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler (454-stroker), top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[eliminator]

Have a fun week-end[^]
Watch Butch, he has a bag of tricks:D:D

Rick
#4279405

[Brent]

Clay,

Make sure you call Butch by his "real" name. "Show dog 1"

He has won just about everything with his two cars. Both have been magazine centerfolds, the 427 car was on DIY tv and Butch was the "How to build a kit car" guest . Speaking of that, here is a little trivia for the web site:

Does everyone know whos car was actually assembled and painted on that show? All of the prep work was done before hand and only the final assy. was really shown. Here is a hint:
1) the car actually has a 428 not the 427 it showed Butch build on tv. That motor built in the show is still on a stand in Butch's garage.

Brent

[clayfoushee]

Thanks, but looks like those FL storms are headed this way...just the rain part.

If I hung around you and Butch too much, I'd be broke.....all those pro-billet doo-mah-flachees, that can survive re-entry through the Earth's atmosphere...............:D

And I WORRY TOO MUCH?[:O]

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler (454-stroker), top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[jhaynie]

Brent,
I know it was red. Does that narrow it down?:D

John

Unique 289FIA #9367
351W Fuel Injected

[brfutbrian]

clay, i agree with rick. i havent seen so much of a problem with the voltage regulator to say its junk. other than having to add a couple wires to the harness, an external regulator is no big deal. are you still go to lee`s saturday? i need to be in harrisburg on sunday to pick up some parts for a resto im doing on a musclecar ive owned for 30 years. i was going to trailer my car down to PA.and drive it in , but with the monsoon thats being forcast, ill be there, but i dont think the car will. later brian

[clayfoushee]

Yeah Brian, if the monsoon materializes I won't be there with the car, but I will be there. Hope to see you. I'm assuming Lee's going ahead rain or shine.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler (454-stroker), top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[eliminator]

Brent,

Let see, car owners initals are RS.


Yes Clay, you worry too much[^]

Rick
#4279405

[Jim Harding]

quote:Originally posted by clayfoushee

Yeah Brian, if the monsoon materializes I won't be there with the car, but I will be there. Hope to see you. I'm assuming Lee's going ahead rain or shine.


Clay,

Stick the car in your trailer and bring it over..... that's what I'm planning. Noon time weather man said Saturday morning should be overcast, but more rain expected by evening.... might still be a half way good day;)

- Jim -

Jim Harding
La Plata, Maryland

1982 #3004
http://www.capitalareacobraclub.com/albums/album26/1aLeftside.thumb.jpg

[clayfoushee]

Lee called me this afternoon to let me know he's cancelling the event.

Rick, I'm not so much worrying as I'm trying to learn and having fun doing it. Not much of a wrench-turner here, and that's why I plunge in and ask so many questions. I suspect it helps some others as much as it helps me to share these experiences, so I do.

Clay

'98 Unique #9299, 427FE side oiler (454-stroker), top-loader (close), 3.31 rear

Annapolis, MD

[ralphscott]

Clay I have been out of town for the last few days and my laptop hard drive threw a rod, so to speak so I have been off line. My Powermaster set up is the same as Rick and Butch's (a.k.a. show dog 1)and I had the same concern as to proximity to the head, but it works like a charm.

Ralph

[Buzz]

I would not get the 100 AMP version as the wires in the Unique are not sized for that kind of load.

When my alternator crapped out and took a bunch of other stuff with it, one of the first things I ordered was a new 100amp Powermaster unit from Summit. Then I realized two of my gauges were shot and another was already questionable, so I ordered a complete set of Autometers. The ammeter with the Autometer set is only 60 amps and I was initially told that it would be ok since the system only draws the amperage it needs. I was told the absence of a lot of power accessories on the Cobra makes the chance of exceeding a 60 amp draw remote. I double checked with the gauge manufacturer and they said under NO circumstances should I attempt to use that gauge as it would pose a fire risk. I decided to buy a different brand sorta-look-alike 100 amp gauge and figured all would be well. Now I see this. Is the Prodesign wiring harness on the Unique really incapable of handling my new alternator? Please tell me I don't have to go and order another one...

[K.Wilson]

Buzz,
The correct wire size for 100 amps at 12 volts is a number 6 (you would need to go to a number 4 if the wire lenght got over 12 feet or so). The alternator wire size in my Unique is a number 8 which is only good for about 65 amps. That is why I went with 60 amp alternator.
All that being said; you do not have enough accessories on you car to draw 60 amps (unless you have added some high electrical load devices). What this means is that the only time you would have the potential to put 100 amps of current thru the circuit would be when the battery is discharged enough so that it has the capacity to receive the 100 amps that the alternator has the capacity to produce. If the battery is sufficiently discharged to accept the 100 amps that the alternator can produce it will over load the circuit (if your wire is a number 8).
If the wire size is a number 8 I would only use a 60 amp alternator.
Keith

[Buzz]

Thanks Keith. Not good news but I am grateful for hearing it now and not after frying my harness. I wish the Prodesign manual would have included this type of information and saved me the the cost of another new alternator (almost triple by the time it gets here) and the worst part which is the time it takes to get it. Having access to this sort of help from fellow owners is literally a lifesaver. I guess I'll go ahead and install the 60 amp ammeter that matches the set - no need for the 100 amp unit now. Funny thing is - I'm still happy and excited to put the new parts on. Life could be a lot worse.

[K.Wilson]

Buzz,
I really recommend getting a "one wire" GM alternator with the internal regulator. The mods necessary to make it fit the ford engine are not that extensive and it is a lot more reliable than the ford alternator with the small regulator bolted to the back. There are always some on e-bay.......
Keith

[Buzz]

Keith, I already have the GM alt as the engine in my car is a SBC (I hope we can still be friends). It was brought down here and partially completed by a really interesting fellow who sadly died piloting a plane in Central America (that alone is a story worthy of a movie). It was a real barn find for me as I had decided on a Unique while I was living in Canada. When I moved back down here, the cost of importing a Cobra or a kit were looking very discouraging until a friend told me there was one here already. Long story short, the odds of finding a Cobra here let alone a Unique would have been a million to one. I would never willingly put a Chevy engine in a Cobra, but I consider myself extraordinarily lucky to have what I have. Recently, I had decided to install a "Super FE" from Southern Automotive but two business opportunities popped up and due to the significant cost of importation I had to adjust priorities for a while. So here I am for now stuck with a strong little 383 stroker that runs like a rocket and while it aint the real thing the smile it puts on my face sure is. Take care and thanks again for the help.