Wilwood Brake Upgrade

[K.Wilson]

I just finished an upgrade to my brake system. I put Wilwood Brakes on my MGB/Moss Racing front suspension.
It is the Wilwood Heavy Duty unit that fits the late 60"s GM cars. Fabricated my own brackets etc. and installed two new Wilwood master cylinders at the same time.
I will install the remote balance bar today and try them out if the rain stops.
I hope to attach a photo..............
Keith
http://www.uniquecobra.com/uploaded/k.wilson/DSC01047.JPG

[weaver]

Looks good Keith, I thought you had oir coil over susp. Let us know how it works.

Alan

[K.Wilson]

Alan,
When I ordered mine you were just in the early stages of your coil over system. Rick recommended the Moss Racing coil over system. It has served me well but I have always wanted the Wilwood Brakes.
The Poly Bushings on the Moss system had seen better days so I machined new ones out of a bar of Teflon stock. I also replaced all the other bushings with high strength poly bushings.
The brakes had a few surprises that I did not expect. I had to machine the seal race down to .300 inch thick to get the rotor closer to the spindle. I had to order a grease seal from National to match the 1 7/8 inch race and the 2 1/2 inch Wilwood hub. I had to drill and tap my lug nuts to 1/2-20 as the Wilwood studs were 1/2 inch vs. the Monti Carlo rotor 7/16.
I made the adapter plates from 3/8 inch thick 7075 aluminum (although 6061 would have been fine) I made special spacers from 1 inch 6061 aluminum bar stock. I custom made the spacers to ensure the caliper was centered in the rotor .325 inch for the right side and .308 for the left.
I have about 30 hours of labor in it with the master cylinder change.
Now that I have the templates and know what to order I believe one could be done in 10 to 12 hour range.
Now if it would ony stop raining.............
Keith

[nolastyankee]

Ouch, this one hurts!

Keith, we did the same upgrade on the Spence car and have the templates on CAD and even gave Maurice a copy at Homecoming. We have all the steps documented and probably could have saved you some time. It soundsl like you figured out all the important parts, including the machining of the hub. Looks great!

Unique 9122 - 289 FIA Cobra - The Legendary "Spence" Car

[rdorman]

I did the same thing a couple of years ago and documented everything over on Club Cobra back then. Sounds about the same. New adaptors, machining of the hub and peice that the inner bearing rests against that slides over the spindle.

PLEASE tell me more about the Moss versus MG setup. My front washes out and rides like a tank. Very curious to see what your thoughts are before and after.

Thanks
Rick

[K.Wilson]

Rick,
I have had the Moss Racing front suspension since I built it in 92/93. As I recall I bought the conversion for about $600. It includes the coil-overs, the aluminum blocks and the upper control arms you see in the photo, and a new center "pan" that mounts between the existing lower control arms to mount the bottom end of the coil-over.
The only down side to the set-up is that there is about 1 1/2 inch less travel to the suspension than with the Mustang II conversion, most of it being in the "rebound" side,(travel in the up direction is about the same, travel in the down direction is less). I have compensated for this by adding a 1 inch front sway bar and 3/4 inch in the rear. This keeps the outside wheel on the ground in a hard corner. However, going over a rise at high speed and into a corner it feels like a front wheel could be off the ground because there is not sufficient suspension travel to let the wheel down. I have no real evidence of this just that the steering wheel feels "light".
I replaced the Poly suspension bushings when I had it appart because they had come appart over time and the high under hood temps.
I have never driven one with the stock MGB suspension, but I can't imagine it would be very stable (it is not on the MGB, my wife has a '79 Limited Edition that I think is unsafe at any speed).
I am very happy with the weight reduction vs. the Monti Carlo/Volari brakes, it was in excess of 30 lbs. of unsprung weight.
I installed a remote bias bar adjuster and two 3/4 inch master cylinders. Any suggestions on where to start.....I have the bar centered now.
Keith

[rdorman]

Thanks for the information. For some reason, I was thinking that you had the Hawk front suspenstion (the route I am going). I have a brake worksheet that can help you pick a starting point for the balance bar. Aside from that, I would center it, turn it until the rears lock first (an observer next to the braking area is a big help), then back until the front lock. If you ever drive in the wet, do it in the wet as well, mark the two positions on a remote adjuster and that will give you repeatable settings.

The stock MGB front is stable enough, it just rides like a tank, has no asjustability and some pretty poor camber curves and bump steer characteristics. Besides, lever shocks are just NOT $exy:)

Rick

[nolastyankee]

Rick,
We have the Hawk suspension on our car. Please let me know if you have any questions or would like to discuss further.

Unique 9122 - 289 FIA Cobra - The Legendary "Spence" Car

[rdorman]

I am really looking forward to your driving impression with the Hawk suspension. Bet you are to!
Rick

[K.Wilson]

I am back from the left coast and I plan on trying out the brakes today as we have SUNSHINE!
When I put the wheels back on I noticed that they did not look right. I measured the old hubs vs. the new ones and there is a 5/8 inch difference so the wheels don't look right in the wheel well. I bought 1/2 inch mag wheel spacers and will install them today.
The lug bolts are long enough, but I have never had any experience with using wheel spacers.
Did anyone else run into this?
Keith

[casaleenie]

This is Rdorman here. Be VERY careful with wheel spacers.
Rick

AL
2899386

[nolastyankee]

Keith,
Again, same experience here. The Wilwood unit is overall more compact through the hub section. We machined some wheel spacers using the Trigo pin guide as a base template. We ended up with 1/4" spacers but didn't want to go any more because of the lack of stud length, as you reference. The off the shelf spacers more than kinda suck, but the machined ones fit within .001" or so. We have the spacers on CAD if you would like a copy.

Unique 9122 - 289 FIA Cobra - The Legendary "Spence" Car

[nolastyankee]

Keith,
Dad is here and we were just talking this over. With the Wilwood setup you lose 5/16" per side overall in width, although the rotor/caliper moves about an inch out toward the wheel, leaving much more space between the tie rod end and the rotor. With our machined spacer, and the switch to Trigo's with different offset, we are in about the same place. If it means anything, with the 1/4" spacer, you will be back to 'AC Factory' track.

Unique 9122 - 289 FIA Cobra - The Legendary "Spence" Car

[K.Wilson]

Brian,
I have been slightly ahead of myself this whole project. I should have waited an extra day and saved myself some work. Sunday I put the spacers in but did not like the way they looked. I took it all apart and installed the old Monti Carlo rotors and measured the track then installed the Wilwood units and measured again, the track with the Wilwood rotors was just over 5/8 inch less.............or 5/16 per side. You and your Dad are right! Again!
I will mill the spacers down this week.
Keith

[nolastyankee]

Keith,
If you decide you want to change your front suspension, Hawk makes a 'wide track' kit that adds 5/8" per side, but this is obviously a pretty big investment. I'm not sure that the standard MGB tie rod ends will allow this much adjustment. You'd need to find extra long heim joints or swap out the rack.

I can't think of any more issues you will run into, but feel free to call or write with questions. We have likely been there!

Unique 9122 - 289 FIA Cobra - The Legendary "Spence" Car