Want to "Tweak" My 302 HO

[Rickd]

Now have two weekends and 450 miles under my belt with the FIA and have a recommended carb upgrade from Don Gould for my 302. Don recommended a 575 Speed Demon to replace my Holley 600. I'm in the process of getting motor specs from the original owner.

The original owner hasn't been able to provide a part number for the cast iron cylinder heads he bought in '98 from Ford Racing. He had represented the motor as having 300 HP, but I'm a little skeptical.

The 302 moter (M-6009-B50) from Ford Racing is a mild motor:

-Hypereutectic pistons (9.0:1 comp. ratio w / 65cc head)
-Explorer high torque hydraulic roller camshaft
.Intake .422", Exhaust .448"
.Intake 256 deg., Exhaust 266 deg.
.116 deg. Lobe Separation
-Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold
-Unknown Ford cast iron heads (purchased in '99)

The Demon carb will help with throttle response and 'smoothness', but I am wondering if an investment in something like Edelbrock Performer Heads would help boost the HP slightly. Just changing heads? or would the cam need to be changed as well? Not looking for anything radical .. just an honest approximately 300 HP, in a streetable cobra. I appreciate your comments (after getting the motor work done .. I'm getting the tires properly balanced to remove the front end shimmy!!! This forum is great).

Thanks again,
Rick Durkin



289 FIA, #9299, Viking Blue, 302 HO, T-5

[Slither]

Rick,

The Performer RPM heads have 60cc chambers, so your compression ratio will go up slightly (if it is actually a 65cc head on there now). With the right cam, you could boost the horsepower up... a lot:D! I took a quick glance at the Ford book, and I do not find any cast iron heads with 65cc chambers (could have missed them), but only the cast iron GT-40 head, nominal 60cc chamber. They have small valves in them. Also, the part number you list is for a 302 short block assembly, not a complete engine. A head swap would be fairly simple, and not cost all that much. With the aluminum head, you can run a slightly higher compression ratio and live on pump gas.

Check the comp cams web site, I think they have some horsepower curves plotted for 302 engines based on their different cams. Additionally, Edelbrock has some info on their site about a 367Hp 302 based on the Performer RPM matched package system (or whatever they call it). That will put some spring in your step:D:D! Since you already have the intake part of that system, that might be a safe way to go. Keep in mind that the carb recommendation will not likely be valid with this setup. You should call Don back to see what will work. Good luck, and keep us posted...


Paul

289 FIA

2899464

408 Windsor

Toploader (wide)

3.07 rear

[Justin Upchurch]

You can tell if you have the GT 40 heads or not by checking to see if they have three horizontal bars running across the front of them. If the don't they are the standard head. I would take Paul's advice, for a weekend and $1500 you can have a nice little street motor with 375 hp.

Justin

[Rickd]

Paul,

Looks like the heads are stock. I'm considering going with the Edelbrock Performer heads (not the RPM Performer) as they would allow me to run the stock pistons, cam, etc. Should provide a performance boost, and with the new Demon carb., improved throttle response. My car is used for street driving only, and I don't think I need the 370 HP (although it sure is nice to know it's available).

Thanks for the recommendation!!
Rick

289 FIA, #9299, Viking Blue, 302 HO, T-5

[Slither]

Rick,

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am fairly sure you can use the Performer RPM heads with the pistons you have. (These heads all have the same size combustion chamber, unless you order the special larger version). Also, you may not gain anything at all if you do not choose the correct cam to support the head change... You might even lose some[?].

Keep in mind that if you are running the stock 289 exhaust system you will probably lose around 40-50Hp off the top right away :( (experts please chime in here if this is incorrect). Then realize that the 367Hp figure they report is probably with a giant velocity stack and a 1" carb spacer under ideal conditions. You could lose another 20-plus horsepower just by bolting the air filter in place:(:(.

When all is said and done, the Performer RPM package will get you closer to the 300Hp you are looking for, and it is all designed to work together. So, for roughly that same financial cost and time investment you will gain extra horsepower. Plus, you will get braggin' rights[^]!

Paul

289 FIA

2899464

408 Windsor

Toploader (wide)

3.07 rear

[Rickd]

Slither,

I've been reading some real interesting articls on AFR 165 cc cylinder heads for the 302. Bolting on a set of AFR's, with stock cam and pistons (using a Demon carb) they increased HP from 275 to 375. Pretty amazing. The AFR's are pretty cool looking as well. Makes it a lot easier than pulling engine and putting in a new cam etc. Bolt on the new heads, carb, and make sure you replace bearings, etc., and you're ready to roll with a streetable cam and some HP in reserve. Looks like an option worth considering!!
Rick

289 FIA, #9299, Viking Blue, 302 HO, T-5

[Slither]

Rick,

Can you post links to the articles?

I am curious to hear what others with more experience think about this[?][?][?]

Paul

289 FIA

2899464

408 Windsor

Toploader (wide)

3.07 rear

[Rickd]

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/116_0307_ford/

I'm trying to post the article from CAR CRAFT that I found on the internet when researching AFR cylinder heads for the 302 small block. The article is titled "400 HP With A Stock Cam". They took a stock 275 HP 302 HO motor and bolted on a set of 165 cc AFR street heads and a Road Demon 625 carb. Also changed the headers to Doug's Headers setpped Tri-Y headers. Produced 382 HP at 6000 rpm and 368 ft. pounds of torque at 4200.

They then added a set of higher ratio adjustable rockers to increase effective lift and duration at the valves. Reached 405 hp at 6200 rpm. If my "posting attempt" is not successful, www.carcraft.com is where it can be found. I came across the article simply by putting "AFR cylinder heads" into the google search engine.

I'm interested in your comments. I'm heading out of the country til Tuesday on a business trip, and I want to at least order my Demon carb from Don Gould when I return. I may do that to just keep it simple and enjoy a smooth running little 302 for a while. The bolt on heads can always be added later.

Adios,
Rick

289 FIA, #9299, Viking Blue, 302 HO, T-5

[Brent]

If you want the traditional head design that will use stock headers the AFRs are a nice piece. It all depends on the budget you have set and what you want the outcome to be. I would change the heads, rockers,cam,intake, and carb. If I could not do the cam and rockers I would wait until I could. No need to tear it apart two or three times. Do the whole pkg. at one time and make sure the parts match like Slither said.

Have fun!


Brent
427 SC Chassis #4279401
Candy Apple Red/White
402 FE/Toploader/3.54

[Justin Upchurch]

Do the cam and the heads at once. You are already in the motor at this point , and like Brent said you don't have to do this all at once. The AFR is a nice choice beacuse they come with a CNC porting and are grat out of the box. The only thing you have to worry about with the pistons is if you have to fly-cut them, or not. Just ask company rep which heads you can run on your motor without machining the pistons. Also, let them tell you what cam and intake to run, they will know.
Also, take the magazine articles with a grain of salt because as Paul mentioned they are testing all kinds of "tricks" on the motor to get a dyno number.

Justin

[Slither]

Rick,

A couple of things...

First, I will bet that you can change the cam in one of these without pulling the engine, since the nose is so long:). It might require undoing the radiator, though [?] (others please remark on this).

Second, make sure you know that you have the same vintage short block that the magazine article was starting with, i.e. same cam and forged pistons, etc. Otherwise your results will vary, and it could be will vary significantly.

That being said, the AFR stuff is great. I would not hesitate to run it. The Edelbrock setup might be less expensive[?][?]:):)

Whatever you do, make sure you do your homework ahead of time, as Justin says. It could save a lot of dissapointment :([8].

Keep us posted, take photos, and post them :D:D.


Paul

289 FIA

2899464

408 Windsor

Toploader (wide)

3.07 rear

[nolastyankee]

With regard to changing the cam with the engine in the Cobra, that should be no problem at all. I changed the cam in my '66 Mustang without pulling the engine.

In the Unique there's plenty of room between the front of the block and the radiator. Don't forget, you're taking off the timing cover and water pump...That's half the length of the cam already!

Brian Carlson

Unique 9122 - 289 FIA Cobra - The Legendary "Spence" Car