clutch bleeding

[twanita]

i have the standard clutch hydraulic slave, lakewood bell hsg and ram clutch. i hooked up a pressure bleeder to the clutch master cyl and pumped it to 20 lbs. the fluid got to the exit fitting on the mc ( i know because it leaked) but i get nothing at the bleeder. i even cracked the line going into the slave and nothing. before i start checking the lines and unions for blockage, am i missing something?. shouldn't 20 lbs push fluid through even though i have the tank set below the mc? does the piston in the mc have to be in a certain position to allow fluid to pass through?.

[pgermond]

A blockage is unlikely, but not impossible - what happens if you pump (and pull) the pedal? Did you bench bleed (prime) the m/c?

[twanita]

hi phil, no but i should have. i'm starting to get fluid through on the clutch and brakes but still a lot of air. i think i just have to be more patient remembering that everything was completely dry. also my pedal pumper (wife) is very impatient as the garage is cold. thx, jim o.

[pgermond]

I understand what your saying about your pedal pumper :) When I did mine I used an evacuation system (suction). It got the fluid through the system in a hurry. Then I used a brake bleeder kit (NAPA) making it a one man job.

Good luck..... you'll get there.... part of the fun ;)

[davids2toys]

rookie owner here...
Can somone post the proper clutch bleeding proceedure for me, or post a link.
I want to do all the fluids in the car...so far I have done the oil, thermostat and coolent next, then clutch brakes and rear.
Any advice appreciated!!!
Thanks

[pgermond]

Read the thread you just posted on and use the "search" function on clutch slave bleeding. That will keep you busy for a while ;)

For the clutch I use a self-brake bleeding kit from NAPA. I flush the system out real good because this the line closest to the header. This year I replaced the slave as a precautionary measure ($50). Both my clutch line and slave are well wrapped with heat shield/reflective material. Have never had a problem due to regular maintenance/inspection.

[davids2toys]

Read the thread you just posted on and use the "search" function on clutch slave bleeding. That will keep you busy for a while ;)

For the clutch I use a self-brake bleeding kit from NAPA. I flush the system out real good because this the line closest to the header. This year I replaced the slave as a precautionary measure ($50). Both my clutch line and slave are well wrapped with heat shield/reflective material. Have never had a problem due to regular maintenance/inspection.

How do you think I found this thread...lol
Where do you get this heat sheild wrap, a place like advance auto, or auto zone?
I did notice that the line is only about 2 inches away from the header, it looks like they could have routed that line more away from the header!ooops, that is the front brake line! I wiull now go look for the clutch line
Is this self bleeding brake kit like the mighty vac kit( which I already own).
what is this self bleeder kit doing exactly?

[twanita]

there is a picture of the popular self bleeding kit in the first post of this thread. i think it is called a motive bleeder and i got mine from pelicanparts.com but others sell them. the best thing for the brake lines is a sleeve from jegs or summit. then they also have adhesive sheets that you can cut up and wrap around the slave. jim o

[pgermond]

Here is a photo of the heat shield I made and the clutch slave and hydraulic lines wrapped. Maybe a bit primitive, but it works....

[Naumoff]

Dave,

I just get a peddle pumper and bleed and fill. The Wilwood M/Cs, as you can see, have a small reservoir so check them regularly or get a third person to keep filling them.

You could make it a party and have one person at each wheel, one at the clutch, one at the M/C and a peddle pumper.:D

[scott h]

i have a hydralic t/o bearing it seemed like it took forever to bleed. i used a speed bleeder here too. helped alot. most people wind up rerouting the lines because of the proximity to the headers. lots of postings on that subject

[davids2toys]

Thanks for all the good info

[Naumoff]

i have a hydralic t/o bearing it seemed like it took forever to bleed. i used a speed bleeder here too. helped alot. most people wind up rerouting the lines because of the proximity to the headers. lots of postings on that subject

Scott,
I have a McLeod HTOB and two bleeds its good and one more just because. Three pumps hold then I bleed.
Is your bleeder on top of the piston or on the bottom?

[RJacobsen]

Dave, Be carefull of what fluid you use especially if you have a hydralic t/o bearing. I think McLeod recomends Dot-3 only. some of the fancier stuff will eat the seals.

[Naumoff]

Rod, Your right. DOT 3 ONLY. I use the Wilwood 570. No problems.

[davids2toys]

Dave, Be carefull of what fluid you use especially if you have a hydralic t/o bearing. I think McLeod recomends Dot-3 only. some of the fancier stuff will eat the seals.

Ok, here comes the stupid question, how do I know if I have a HTOB, to me it looks like it is a slave cyl with a bleeder on top.

[pgermond]

The slave is external and uses a clutch fork. A HTOB is internal (inside the bell housing) and slides over the input shaft of the transmission.

[davids2toys]

The slave is external and uses a clutch fork. A HTOB is internal (inside the bell housing) and slides over the input shaft of the transmission.

That's what I figured, I am looking at a cyl outside with a bleeder screw on the top, so this would mean I have a slave and therefore CANNOT have a hyd throwout bearing, is this correct?
That being the case, can I use dot 4 or that valvoline syntec stuff, or is dot3 all I should use in this system/
Would you know where I can buy all new caps for my brakes and clutch MC...I have girling MC's. They have this orange crust on the outside and on the inside and on the rubber boot, I have no idea what this stuff is, but it does not look to good!

[pgermond]

Can't help you with locating new caps. Maybe do a Google search. I use Valvoline syntec with my brakes and Wilwood high-temp with the clutch. Lines are wrapped and the fluid flushed and replaced every season.

[davids2toys]

Can't help you with locating new caps. Maybe do a Google search. I use Valvoline syntec with my brakes and Wilwood high-temp with the clutch. Lines are wrapped and the fluid flushed and replaced every season.

Why the two different types, and is the wilwood dot3 or 4...also, where is the most economical place to get this stuff? expensive?

[pgermond]

Wilwood fluid is a bit more expensive. I buy it at a local speed shop, but it's readily available. I use wilwood in the clutch for two reason - the clutch line receives the most heat from the header and, IMO, the clutch is most critical, when it's gone it is gone.... whereas I have two sets of brakes (front & rear) to fall back on.

Maybe not the best reason, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

http://www.raceshopper.com/wilwood_brake_fluid.shtml
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com/performance_parts/index.html?item=864
http://www.wilwood.com/Products/006-MasterCylinders/012-EXP/index.asp

[davids2toys]

Wilwood fluid is a bit more expensive. I buy it at a local speed shop, but it's readily available. I use wilwood in the clutch for two reason - the clutch line receives the most heat from the header and, IMO, the clutch is most critical, when it's gone it is gone.... whereas I have two sets of brakes (front & rear) to fall back on.

Maybe not the best reason, but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

http://www.raceshopper.com/wilwood_brake_fluid.shtml
http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com/performance_parts/index.html?item=864
http://www.wilwood.com/Products/006-MasterCylinders/012-EXP/index.asp

so, which wilwood are you using, the 570 or 600+...are they both dot3? Also, is that valvoline syntech fully safe for the entire system?

[clayfoushee]

so, which wilwood are you using, the 570 or 600+...are they both dot3? Also, is that valvoline syntech fully safe for the entire system?

570 is more than adequate. But again, it is important to remember that all fluids deteriorate over time with contaminants and water. When that happens, the advertised boiling point steadily decreases. Your initially 570 degree fluid may become a 300 degree boiling point fluid after 2 years.

That's why old fluids tend to boil and be more problemmatic, and you rarely have a problem with new fluids right after the change. It sounds like your fluids were BEYOND old.;)

[davids2toys]

570 is more than adequate. But again, it is important to remember that all fluids deteriorate over time with contaminants and water. When that happens, the advertised boiling point steadily decreases. Your initially 570 degree fluid may become a 300 degree boiling point fluid after 2 years.

That's why old fluids tend to boil and be more problemmatic, and you rarely have a problem with new fluids right after the change. It sounds like your fluids were BEYOND old.;)

Yes, I understand about the old fluids and how they lose the boiling point as they age and absorb, thanks....me being a new owner of this car, I can only imagine what has and chas not been done!

So, is this 570 dot 3? and why not go with the 600?
Now, as far as the brakes go...would regular Heavy Duty Dot 4 be good, or the Valvoline syntec?
Is the reason for not using wilwood 570 in the brakes just the cost factor?

[clayfoushee]

Yes, I understand about the old fluids and how they lose the boiling point as they age and absorb, thanks....me being a new owner of this car, I can only imagine what has and chas not been done!

So, is this 570 dot 3? and why not go with the 600?
Now, as far as the brakes go...would regular Heavy Duty Dot 4 be good, or the Valvoline syntec?
Is the reason for not using wilwood 570 in the brakes just the cost factor?

I guess you can use whichever DOT3 you choose. I was simply suggesting that 570 is more than adequate, based on common experience, and 30 degrees is kinda round-off error. Some people buy premium gasoline when their engines only call for regular.

I would make sure your clutch line is insulated near the header

[davids2toys]

I guess you can use whichever DOT3 you choose. I was simply suggesting that 570 is more than adequate, based on common experience, and 30 degrees is kinda round-off error. Some people buy premium gasoline when their engines only call for regular.

I would make sure your clutch line is insulated near the header

Thanks, and I will be insulating that clutch line for sure!
went underneath the car tonight and noticed the slave rbber boot is ripped next to the lakewood scattershield. Does it matter or should it be replaced?

[Naumoff]

Wilwood 600 is DOT 4. The 570 is DOT 3.
I use 570 in my HTOB and brakes.

[davids2toys]

Wilwood 600 is DOT 4. The 570 is DOT 3.
I use 570 in my HTOB and brakes.
thats good to know...so why not use the dot 4?

[Naumoff]

thats good to know...so why not use the dot 4?

David,
McLeod does not want you to use anything but DOT 3. From what I understand DOT 3 has a higher lubricity. Some DOT 4 high performance fluids will even eat the seals.
The DOT 4 and 5 will not absorb moister. If you use them you should change them every year. Racers change hydraulic fluids after every race so it doesn't matter what they use. They push their cars to the absolute limit and want the higher boiling point of the synthetic fluids. We for the most part baby our cars.
I change my clutch fluid every year anyway and this year I will change my brake fluid. Just because.

What ever you use, flush the system as much as you can with the replacement fluid. The cars system does not use that much fluid so cost per bottle really doesn't matter. A couple of bottles is enough.

[davids2toys]

David,
McLeod does not want you to use anything but DOT 3. From what I understand DOT 3 has a higher lubricity. Some DOT 4 high performance fluids will even eat the seals.
The DOT 4 and 5 will not absorb moister. If you use them you should change them every year. Racers change hydraulic fluids after every race so it doesn't matter what they use. They push their cars to the absolute limit and want the higher boiling point of the synthetic fluids. We for the most part baby our cars.
I change my clutch fluid every year anyway and this year I will change my brake fluid. Just because.

What ever you use, flush the system as much as you can with the replacement fluid. The cars system does not use that much fluid so cost per bottle really doesn't matter. A couple of bottles is enough.

Thanks for explanation, but I believe the dot 3 and dot4 WILL absorb moisture, the dot 5 however will not.I also believe the dot 4 is a direct replacement for dot3 if desired wherever dot3 is required.
I guess I will have to look into it further!
The disadvantage to dot5 is that it does not absorb moisture, so the moisture collects in the caliper and will boil at 212 deg causing a vapor lock situation, another problem with dot5 is that it is compressable and will always have a spongy peddle!
I found wilwood 570 for 4 and change a bottle if buying 24 bottles, otherwise 6 and change each.
www.speedway.com (http://www.speedway.com)
they have all kinds of good stuff at good prices, even the motive pressure bleeder is 10.00 cheaper!

[davids2toys]

I am trying to bleed the clutch line..I used a mighty vac on the bleeder on the slave. It sucked out the old dirty fluid out of the slave, but for some reason it will not drain the master cyl..I even disconnected the line going to the slave from the MC, and it wont even drain out by gravity, put the vac tube on that line and it WILL NOT drain the MC.Is there a check valve or something that wont let me drain the MC, I'm going nuts with this:mad: !
any suggestions

[Naumoff]

I don't know about the girling MC but the Wilwoods drain with no problem.
Maybe you need a pedal pumper to help on this on right now.

The EXP 600 says not to mix with any other fluids. But I wouldn't mix fluids anyway just to be on the safe side.

[davids2toys]

I used my female pedal pumper yesterday, worked out good, real mystery how this MC works though!
Fluid was disgusting with all kinds of BLACK debris in the reserviuor, I sucked it out of the top, then I tried to wipe out the remainder with a rag but could not do a good job, finally, I just stirred up the whole mess with some new fluid, flushed about 2 pints of regular DOT3 thru it until it was spotless..about 2 hrs worth of pedal pushing pleasure...lol!
I plan on ordering the wilwood 570 and just bleed some more to fill it up with the wilwood stuff, DITTO for the brakes...took it out tonight and it performed flawlessly!!!
I would like to buy the Motive power bleeder, but dont know which one to get for the girling MC...anybody want to jump in on this?

[clayfoushee]

Cool, but you can probably just relax, enjoy the car for awhile, and resume bleeding next Spring. No reason to go overboard.;)