Southern Automotive Super FE

[Buzz]

Well, it looks like I'm finally getting around to doing the right thing and tossing the sbc 383 stroker and T5 combo in favor of a 390/406 based Super FE and Toploader from Bill Parham at Southern Automotive. I bought the car with the Chevy and while I never liked the idea, I always considered myself very lucky to find a Unique Cobra down here as importing one would have more than doubled the price by the time it cleared customs. The mouse has about 400hp at the flywheel and I must say the car is quite fast and runs beautifully, but I can't wait to experience the sound and feel of the big stroked FE.
Any one out there running this engine? How do you like it and are there any streetability issues with the single plane Victor intake? Bill and Susan have so far been really helpful and pleasant to deal with. Any feedback will be much appreciated.

[pgermond]

Buzz,

From what I've heard, your going to love it!!! I have an SA 406 (not the Super). A couple of things you might want to ask Bill about. #1 - what brand clutch/pressure plate and, #2 - what brand distributor.

If it's a Pioneer clutch - ask for another (like a McCloed). If it's not an MSD distributor you will probably wind up putting one in down the road, so do it now.

Like I said - you are going to love it!!

my $0.02

[Buzz]

Thanks Phil! I'm going with a Mallory distributor, mainly because I'm familiar with the brand (after having gone through a couple of modules) and I also have a brand new Hyfire VI AL box and Promaster coil. I will ask about the clutch. The last big block that I owned was a brutal, hopped up 455 in a '74 Trans Am (my first car)that had tons of low end grunt. The newer T/A's and Vettes I owned after that may have been better all round performers, but the feeling was never the same without that torque. The Cobra as it is feels stronger than all of them, so I can only imagine what it will be like with the FE.
Question: Will I be able to yank the current engine and trans out as a unit and drop the new assembly in or should I pull the body off again since I will have to line everything up and weld in new engine and transmission mounts?

[pgermond]

Buzz,

Good question - I am by no means an expert on the subject. You said "...pull the body off again..." Sounds like you have had it off at least once already - that's what I would do, to be safe - but what do I know ;)

[homer]

I have the SA406 -- Southern Automotive is first class and has been very helpful to me with any and all questions. I have a 4spd toploader and the combination is outstanding. Car really moves. I did add and spal fan to the back of the radiator that runs continuously to help with cooling. No issues on a hot day or in traffic.

[Poorboy]

Buzz,
You get to pull the body again.

[Buzz]

Thought so. Not a big problem though - I kinda like the idea of "rebuilding" the whole car with the new drivetrain. I will also upgrade to stouter halfshafts, yokes and u-joints in the rear and maybe add a rear sway bar. One issue that will take some thought is how to effectively add a puller fan to the engine side of my rad since on my older Unique there is less than 2" of clearance in front of the sway bar. I may have to look into a way to move the bottom of the rad forward a couple of inches.

[Poorboy]

Buzz,
I have an older car in my shop now that the owner had a fan shroud made that sets the fan back about 5". It puts the fan just in front of the stearing rack. The sway bar goes though the shroud.

[Buzz]

Poorboy, that sounds very interesting. Any chance of a picture? Does the hole for the sway bar let a lot of air in or is it sealed up tight? This is an option I would really like a look at.

[pgermond]

Buzz,

Do a search on SPAL fans.... lots of info

[Buzz]

Hi Phil. I've checked out just about every fan manufacturer in the business. The 16" Spal that most are using is still too big for the space I have available (about 1.625").

[nolastyankee]

Buzz,
On the Spence car we have (had) the same problem...Even the slimmest SPAL fan was still too big to fit between the sway bar and the radiator. Our car is a 1991 and probably similar to yours in age.

I fabricated a new mount to move the radiator out and up. (Out for clearance for the SPAL fan, up to get rid of the unsightly mount below the front end of the car)

I'll shoot a couple pictures tonight and post them for you. I also investigated the custom fan shroud idea that was mentioned above, but didn't like the look of it. Another option is to have the sway bar bent for fan clearance like Brent did on his car. There are pics somewhere on this site of that modification too.

[Buzz]

Excellent Brian. I would love to see the pics. Did you end up with the radiator tilted back at the top and was it necessary to trim some fiberglass in the lower nose area to allow the bottom of the rad to move out?

[nolastyankee]

Buzz,
The sides of the existing radiator mount on the Unique chassis are actually not vertical, it is slightly tilted back toward the car by about 7.5 degrees. At first glance it looks vertical, but it is not. I was originally going to fab the mount with the radiator vertical, but found that it looked better staying parallel with the support. So, the short answer to your question is that we kept the same 7.5 degree tilt for aesthetic purposes. On our FIA radiator there was plenty of vertical clearance with or without the tilt.

Regarding the fiberglass, we had about 1" available to move forward without having to trim any of the body. However, because our car had a crack in the oil cooler area where the previous owner (our friend Spence) broke the body with a tow strap, we killed two birds with one stone and cut out all of the fiberglass radiator ducting. On our car, we have all sorts of room now and will rebuild the oil cooler shroud and wheel well extensions with aluminum once the body is back from paint. Again, the short answer to your question is that you should have about 1 or 1.5 inches to play with before having to cut fiberglass.

Tonight I'll get you pics of the radiator mount, if you want body pictures it may take me a week or two to get out to the painter. We're getting close to having the painted body back!

[Poorboy]

Buzz,
Send me your email address and I'll send some pictures of the fan shroud to ya.

Poorboy

[nolastyankee]

Buzz,
Here you go. These pictures are before the bracket was cleaned up, powder coated, and mounted. It looks prettier now, but it does not photograph very well since it is all black. I used 1" angle iron and supported the radiator in front and back. The 1" angle does not impede any air flow and front/rear support makes mounting much easier. In these shots it is sitting on top of the old bracket, and this is pretty much where it will mount. When looking from the front of the car the mount does not stick below the body. I also have an additional 1.5 inches of clearance to the sway bar, allowing the SPAL fan and room to boot. If I tilt the radiator to vertical I can even get the bigger SPAL fan in this opening.

Let me know if you want additional photos. Good luck.

[Buzz]

Poorboy, I sent you a PM with my email address - thanks again.
Brian, thanks for the pics. That looks like a doable option. I did some recon on my car and if I go this route, I will need to trim some glass inside the front opening. Poking around in there also made me realise how much air can get around my radiator at the sides. It doesn't seem to be a problem now as I don't need my fans at all once I'm moving over about 25mph, but that may change with the big block. In anticipation of installing the new ignition box and generally preserving the life of underhood parts, I bought a set of stainless steel hood louvers from these guys http://www.raceace.com/productshood.html?x=17&y=1
I always liked the look of louvered hoods on some of the old race Cobras and relieving engine compartment heat & pressure can't be a bad thing. The louvers installed stick out like a sore thumb right now but when the car is painted, they will be body colored and should look just right. They work as advertised - the engine compartment is way cooler after a long drive and that should help the electronics, rubber , etc last a little longer.

[Buzz]

I disconnected the front sway bar to have a look at clearance/mounting options and it occurred to me that I could easily relocate the mounting points a couple of inches rearward with no moving part interference to give me the space I need. The sway bar connecting uprights will be at a slight angle as opposed to straight vertical. Will this adversely affect the geometry of the suspension or have I stumbled upon a simple quick fix to the problem?

[brfutbrian]

. Will this adversely affect the geometry of the suspension or have I stumbled upon a simple quick fix to the problem?
buzz, i would say no on both. sorry. the only geometry that would change is the swaybar links and the forces on them.my guess is it would break the links or more likely tear the swaybar off the frame. if you were moving it a half inch back,that might work, but 2 inches i think is too much. later , brian

[davebetts]

You will not go wrong with Southern's engine. Strong and sound.
I've put my 427 in both with and without the trans attached. Must take the hood off. Use a engine equilizer bar on the cherry picker. Was much easiler with Tremec off. GOOD LUCK! Wait until you hear the sound of the sidepipes when you crank it up.

[nolastyankee]

Buzz,
Again, this is an option I considered for our car, but 2" is much farther than I would push it. For us, the linkages attaching the sway bar to the control arm are vertical, and moving the sway bar would have placed the everything too close into the suspension for my taste. I'd be OK taking 1/2" inch this way, not much more.

However, if you get a different sway bar (like RJacobson's circle track adjustable bar) you can close the distance between the sway bar and suspension dramatically and have all sorts of room for the fan.

For me, the most effective way to fit the fan was the radiator mount, plus it allowed me to clean up the front end. However, there is a bunch of ways to tackle this problem...

Here's another...Relocate the sway bar behind the suspension using the area on the frame where it kicks upward. You may have to flip the control arms, etc. I didn't look at this option too far, but you can do anything with enough time, money, patience, etc.

[Buzz]

I appreciate the input guys - I guess when something appears too easy or too good to be true, it is just that. It looks like between nudging the bottom of my radiator out about 1/2" and moving the sway bar mount back another 1/2" I will find just enough room for a 16" Spal. My sway bar does not attach to the bottom of the forward frame members like it does on most of your cars, rather it attaches to the front surface of a vertical angle bracket that is welded to two tabs inboard of those members. The "vertical" sway bar links on the control arm are not exactly 90 degrees perpendicular to the control arm now so moving the frame bracket back about 1/2" shouldn't be an issue. I can modify the front of the lower radiator bracket to give me 1/2 to 3/4" forward relocation with only a small amount of fiberglass trimming and the fan should fit nicely.
The other thing I now need to add in the interest of cooling the big block is an oil cooler. That should be a fairly routine add on but are there any do's/dont's I should be aware of from your experiences?

[souzape]

Regarding the oil cooler......make absolutely certain you flush it out very thoroughly before hooking it up. There can be all kinds of undesirable debris inside a new cooler.

Phil Souza

[Buzz]

Thanks Phil - will do.