New to the site, saying hello.

[diegokid]

After wanting to build a Cobra for about 40 years I've decided to do so. Need something to do after my retirement. Looking foward to learning what I can from these pages. Biggest issue now is what motor to use, yep I'll stir the pot. I like bowties. So why don't all you Ford Junkies educate me on these motor issues!

I also want to thank Mr. Weaver for directing me to this site.

diegokid

[Naumoff]

First of all Diegokid,
Welcome to the family.

Try a Ford engine you might like it. :D

http://www.uniquecobra.com/gallery/files/1/4/6/9/113.JPG

Do you have a chebbie engine ready to go in the Cobra?

Are you a small block or big block man?

[diegokid]

I have avaibility of both. They are ready to build. I've been looking at different Ford engines. Seem more interested in the 351C or one of the 406's I was told about from southern automotive. I'm trying to find stats on how much this engine weighs versus that engine. I know a small blk Chebbie and a big block with alum. heads weigh about the same. These FE engines sound somewhat interesting. I just need to educate myself a little more.

[Ric S.]

Diegokid,

Welcome to the family. Buy a Unique. As far as engines, to each his own. I just finished my build that has a SA 406. It has the original cast heads and sounds incredible. I do not intend to race so weight does not matter to me. I am a real believer in the look a big-block or FE engines gives the engine bay. It just looks like the car was made for that look. If you are planning on selling the car after a while the bow-tie between the mounts could be a challenge. I would say put what you want. You can get all the advice you ask for but even the advisor has a preference. If you are putting cost aside, then write down what you what the engine to do for you and the car. The most plus marks win. I can tell you this, whatever engine you choose, when you put the right foot on the little thingy hard, all hell breaks loose and you will love every minute of it. Working out the details of what to include in the car is half the fun. Good luck with the build.

Ric

Ric

[Aggressor]

Welcome to the forum.
Chevy's are cool but will hurt the inherent value in your replica. The more you can make it look, smell, and feel like an original the more inherent value and if you ever resell it you won't limit the number of potential buyers who will look at your car. I learned that lesson when I built a car in 1991 for resale. 427 body style with a potent Ford 302. Many interested individuals at the Summer Carlisle show looked as far as the engine and walked away. 289 style needs a small block with 351's being acceptable. 427 style requires an FE.

- Geary (Aggressor)

[eliminator]

Geary is correct, you will take a beating on the value oof your car first of all.

Then after it's done no matter how nice it is people will look at the engine and keep walking.

No intrest in Cobra with a Chevrolet Engine, none at all, zip!!!

[tcolley]

DiegoKid,

Welcome to the forum!:D

I definitely agree with Geary and Ric.

I've built, bought and sold a few Cobra replicas and there is ZERO interest in those with Chevy engines. When and if you want to sell it you might find it next impossible to sell one without a Ford engine.:o

Just my humble $.02 worth.

Terry
Soon to be FIA 289 owner

[gasman]

Diegokid, My car is still for sale and can be bought for far less than building one today. If you are intent on building one and need a project, I guess I could take it apart and send it to you in boxes. :rolleyes:

[davebetts]

Engines make power to turn wheels. Both manufactures will do that well. Ford engines are proper to the replication of the vechicle. Value alone tells you to put a Ford engine in a Ford. Would one put a Ford engine in a Corvette, just doesn't make sense to me. What engine you buy and build depends on the priorities you have in mind for the car (race, street, drags,grocery getter, etc.). I've talked to maybe two persons with Chevy motors, their reasoning is less cost or they just like Chevys. Why wouldn't they buy a Chevy, I don't get it.

[diegokid]

Ford made AC? I thought Carol Shelby created the AC, unless I've read history incorrectly a Chevy was his first choice, he settled for a ford. Anyway it won't be for show it will be a daily driver. I'm still talking with folks on the benefits of each. I've actually owned three different ford products, two with small blocks one with an inline six. No real major mechanical problems just the once a month repair of something.

[ralphscott]

Shelby first approached GM for the use of the Chevy engine. They turned him down. Then he went to Ford and they sold engines to him and sponsored his racing program which when on to significant fame. The car itself, into which Shelby transplanted the Ford engine, was a british car, AC. AC also partnered with Shelby to provide him the cars less engine and transmission. The differentials/IRS are Jaguar.

Hence the Ford tradition. People buy tradition. Chevy is not part of the tradition. The nice thing about the replicars since you build it yourself if you want a Chevy or Dodge engine in it you can do it no factory constraints. The guy are on target in the resale value issue.

Hope this helps

Ralph

[diegokid]

I know, I just wanted to see how many would want to chime in. As I said earlier I'm looking at maybe the 351C or the 406. If I go Chevy it would be a 327 or a 427. Hard decision for me to make.
My brother is a die hard Ford guy. He's about to climb the walls at his body shop when I talk about any mouse motor in this car. I do it just to watch him sweat. I need to be nice to him since he will most likely do the paint work for me.

Goodnight everyone, Merry Christmas.

[pgermond]

Welcome aboard. Lot of information here - the search capability is a great resource for anything from A to Z.

Go with an FE if it's going to be a 427 car.

[weaver]

Jim knows where I stand on Chevy vs Ford engines, we'll just have to wait and see which way he goes.

Alan

[diegokid]

One thing we can all agree on is the fact that these are really nice cars, better for me that my wife loves it makes it even better. Yes Alan I finally convinced her that the auto would be wrong. Now she wants me to try to teach her how to drive a standard again.

You think that maybe she would be quiet if I promised to build her an FIA with a auto in a few years?

[Brent]

I guess I am uneducated on this subject and need some help.

What is a Cheby?

[pgermond]

chevy.........

[diegokid]

Fat fingered and dyslexic, dangit going bald too.

[Naumoff]

Go with the Ford FE.
Nothing sounds like a FE.

I am with your brother and I am climbing the walls.:D

[Brent]

It would be like building a Vintage '63 split window Vette and putting a small block Ford in it.

Just wrong in my opinion.

[pbrown]

Welcome to our site. I agree that you should be using a Ford power plant in a Cobra replica. There are a few out there with Chevys and they run fine but will be almost unsellable if it ever comes up. I come from a Chevy background myself having built and raced two Corvettes, a Nova, and a Vega (with a big block BTW).

Research some Ford engine options. The Cleveland is a fine engine but the aftermarket has kind of forgotten it these days in favor of the 302 and 351W. Of course nothing looks as good as an FE in a 427 Cobra.

[pgermond]

chevy.........

To clarify, this was in response to Brent's question - "What is a Cheby?" As I and many others have said.... FE is the way to go.

[Brent]

I would LOVE some clarification as to whom this was directed to:

"Fat fingered and dyslexic, dangit going bald too."

[diegokid]

Fat fingered, dyslexic and going bald was in reference to myself, you know cheby instead of chevy, I'm just grateful for checklists. Yes even I make mistakes, however if in 1963 Ford had anything better than a fuel injected 327 and I had one I would have no heartburn with it.


All joking aside I do have a question regarding expansion tanks. Are they needed and did the coolant really expand that much? It seems that most but not all big block fords had them. Since looking around some I have seen older cars and trucks with them. I'll do a search for it here.

[Naumoff]

I just went over this with a friend of mine with his big block Cobra. He Didn't have one and would over a short period of time lose coolant and develop air pockets in his radiator.
His system would not recover the coolant out of his overflow tank or self bleed the air back out of the radiator.

We re-did his piping and put a surge(header) tank on and I removed the petcock on the top driver side of the radiator and ran a 3/8" hose back to the top section of the tank. See my engine pic above and you can see the small black hose going toward the front of the car. The tank has a divider with a one inch hole in it. The inlet and outlet from the system are in the bottom section.

My theory is you want a high point in the cooling system to let all the air naturally come to as well as a space within the closed system for the hot coolant to expand into without loosing it.

A lot of people run there Cobras without the tank and do fine but I wouldn't, small block or big block.
Besides it is period correct and it works. I never have to bleed or burp any air out of my cooling system. Just fill and go. :D

There are also some other things like drilling a bypass hole in the top of the t-stat which also helps with getting all the air out of the engine but you ask about the surge tank.

[Ed]

Ford used expansion tanks with cross flow radiators because any air expansion room at the top would have made the upper cores ineffective

[Naumoff]

To clarify, this was in response to Brent's question - "What is a Cheby?" As I and many others have said.... FE is the way to go.
Phil, I thought it was spelled Chebbie?;)

[Naumoff]

Ford used expansion tanks with cross flow radiators because any air expansion room at the top would have made the upper cores ineffective
And there, that is why Ford did it. Thanks Ed, I new it had something to do with expansion.
And you surely want every square millimeter of radiator used in your Cobra.
:)

[diegokid]

Naumoff,
I did a search last night on this site and I think I found the article you are talking about. Thanks for the info.

[Russ Dickey]

Diego:
There's not much that I can add to this thread that hasn't already been said regarding the "problem" with putting a non-Ford engine in a Cobra replica. I can however try to aid with an analogy that I often use to my few bow-tie loving friends:

Imagine going to a car show or race and seeing an absolutely stunning 1963 Corvette Grand Sport replica. As you approach, you notice that the car is asthetically perfect in body modifications, paint livery, and stance. It has the proper wheels, fender flares, hood scoops, etc. As you poke your head in the window, you see that the builder has gone to great lengths to even get the interior period correct. You think, "Wow, what an amazing homage to a racing legend." Just then, the owner approaches and raises the hood..............only to reveal a turbocharged Toyota Supra motor.

That's how I feel when I see a Chevy-powered Cobra. Yeah, I appreciate the creative engineering and workmanship that went into the car, and yeah, I realize that it's probably just as fast as a Ford powered Cobra...but it just ain't right.

For me, having a replica means replicating the originals as best as I can afford, at least when it comes to the major details. But at the same time I say that, I have to remind myself that I've got an FIA with the "wrong" engine (351w), wrong wheels (GT40-style with lugs), wrong shifter (aftermarket Hurst), wrong dash layout (non-FIA), wrong suspension (coil-over vs. transverse leaf), square tube frame, etc., etc. However, even with all those details being incorrect, there's still nothing more flattering to me than when the "average" car enthusiast looks over the car and asks, "Is this a kit or an original?". I'd never hear that if there was Chevrolet orange under the hood and the distributor on the wrong end - because even the average Joe knows that ain't supposed to be there.

But hey, in the end it's your car and you build it however your heart desires. The bottom line is that you are the one who has to live with the car, work on it, and ultimately...enjoy it. So if that means stuffing that brand-x powerplant between the front fenders, than what the heck. When it's all said and done, the only grief you'll have to put up with are from "Cobra-snobs" like me, and from potential buyers when it comes time to resell it.

[diegokid]

What can you wise Ford men tell me about a 400 out of a 1975 Ford LTD?

[RJacobsen]

The 400 M motor is sort of a big block cleveland. probably one of the worst motors Ford ever built IMO. Early models had trouble with cracked oil galleys that Ford was fixing under warranty. You will not likely find any Hi Performance items for this engine for good reason. It has a twin to it in 351 ci. stay away from that one too. However do not confuse them with the 351 Cleveland, a short lived but very respected motor. The 351 Cleveland I consider a small block motor because it shares the same bellhousing as the 289/302/351 windsor motors. The 400/351 M use the same bellhousing as the 429/460. If your keeping track, yes that makes 3 completely different 351 engines. Hope this helps.

[pbrown]

Diego,

Get yourself a Ford Racing catalog. The back of the book have a wealth of engine history that will help you choose not only the right engine but also the right year of block.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FMS%2DM%2D0750%2DB2007&N=700+4294924480+400070+4294773689+115&autoview=sku

The most popular small block engine Ford made was the 221/260/289/302/5.0. All of these share the same block size. The 260 and 289 can be found in original Cobras. The 302/5.0 is very common in late model Crown Vics, Mustang, and Trucks. It can be stroked to 331 or 347. I have a 331 in my 62 Falcon.

The 351W was introduced in 1969 and is basically the same engine as the previous small block except that the deck height is taller thus the engine is demensionaly taller and wider. It's similar is dementions to a 350 SB Chevy. The 351W is probably the more common small block found in Cobra replicas. It can be stroked to 393, 408, or even 427 ci. I have a 393 sitting in my garage wanting to go into a 289FIA someday.

The most confusing part of the SB Ford is probably the front of the engine. There are about a half dozen timing chain covers, water pumps, etc.

I would try to find a roller 5.0 block or a roller 351W for your project. Either of these will use the one piece rear main seal and roller cam.The roller 5.0 was available is 83 I think. The roller 351W is harder to find and is in 94 or newer F-250 trucks.