Think Roll Bar? Think Again! A safe one.

[juanone]

Just when you think all is okay the unexpected can happen. As you know one of our club members was in an accident in his Cobra two weeks ago. We visited with him and took tons of photos. These photos were taken of Eddy's car wreck. Check your roll bar safety and sturdyness before you entrust it with your life and that of your passengers.
Take a look at one item we do not give much credit to enough.

Visit his wreck http://www.kentuckycobraclub.com/node/377

http://www.kentuckycobraclub.com/files/imagecache/carLarge/files/lg_kannapel09.jpg
http://www.kentuckycobraclub.com/files/imagecache/carLarge/files/eddy_11.jpg
http://www.kentuckycobraclub.com/files/imagecache/carLarge/files/eddy_13.jpg

[eliminator]

Don't much care for the safety features of Superformance Car, I have seen several with issues such as the roll bar and fuel tank. The body is not as tough either. But it's better to have something rather than nothing.

[JeepSnake]

What is the wall thickness on that tubing? I may just be seeing the chrome coat and not the true thickness, but it looks like some mighty thinwall stuff.

Still, it looks like the tubing did OK. Rather, the attaching bolt appears to have failed in double-shear (photo 1). A good reminder that even good equipment can be compromised when you use a suspect fastener.

[brfutbrian]

[QUOTE=JeepSnake;79507]What is the wall thickness on that tubing? I may just be seeing the chrome coat and not the true thickness, but it looks like some mighty thinwall stuff.

cant be very much judging from the way it folded like a pretzel at the body. if i owned a superformance id be having a real rollbar made as we speak. cant get much more of a wake up call than seeing those pix. later, brian.

[tcolley]

I have always been concerned with the construction of the roll bars in most of the replicas on the market, especially with the thickness of the materials and the quality of the fasteners used. I most cases the bars are lower than the drivers head and giving the amount of stretch the belts have when you actually get one upside down...it is a disaster looking to happen.

I've built and raced a FFR Spec Racer that had a "semi-full cage" but even with the extra down tubes and forward bracing I really didn't want to get upside down to test it's integrity. My helmet was right at the top of the main hoop even with the seat bolted to the floor and was always concerned that my head would hit the ground if I were to get it upside down. Not a very appealing thought at over 130 MPH with cars all around you.

When constructing my car I always used grade 8 fasteners on all critical points in the car...especially on the seat and roll bar.

I'm just over 6'3"+ with my helmet on so when I order my 289 Deluxe Pallet Kit (which has the front down tube that ties into the chassis) I asked Maurice to raise the bar approximately 4"-6" above my head for additional safety in case this were to happen.

The safety of the Unique chassis, body and roll bar is one of the reasons that I chose to build a one of their replicas as opposed to the others.

Just my humble opinion and $.02 worth on this subject.

Terry

[Naumoff]

Here is a Cobra flip at VIR.
Once on the web page click on the Video "Cobra Flip turn 14"

http://www.carolinaspeedzone.com/VIR_track_day_083007/VIR_track_day_083007.html

Roll bar looks high and if it is who I think it is they are OK.
They walked away from the wreck.

[ralphscott]

Wow quite a clip Tony! Looks like Eddy Has a nice 71-73 Mach 1. He needs a Unique, the fiberglass for one thing is better. He has a lot of components off his SuperPerformance that he could use. Hope he is doing better he looked pretty banged up in the picture.

Ralph

[juanone]

Ralph,

He is one banged up dude. I'm afraid he will be out of commission for about 3 months.

He likes Uniques.

[diegokid]

I wonder what the outcome for a passenger would have been?
:(

[juanone]

diegokid (http://www.uniquecobra.com/forums/member.php?u=1729),

In this case the passenger walked away with a few stitches. A true miracle, understanding that the car flipped 3 times, I do believe that in any other instance it would have been fatal.

Let me put it to you this way, my wife will not ride the Cobra again until there is a rollbar on her side, she is not fooling either.

Juan

[RJacobsen]

Wow Tony that was one hard flip, I hope the guy is OK. What do you think happened? down shifted to the wrong gear? somehow the rear locked up and spun him around.

[Naumoff]

Juan,
Maybe you can do something like this for the wife and keep the 289 look to the car. Please excuse the paints on a laptop drawing of the roll bar but I think you can get the look I am going for.

Rod, If it is who I think it is,they are OK and walked away from the car. I thought the same thing about the rear wheels locking up. Down shift with out matching the RPMs to the speed. Don't know for sure. If it is who I think it is they have a
T-56 trans.
It looks like a Unique and I know someone flipped his car for him and they are OK and the car didn't suffer to bad. Sorry for being so cryptic but I am 90% sure of who's car it is and don't want to mention their name if it is not.
Need some of those down force flaps like NASCAR has.

[cwareham]

Wow.

Naumoff - I like the idea of the rollbar extension you mocked up in the photo above. Have you thought about how it might attach to the existing rollbar? I could see something like this being important for folks who are going to track their car (most driving schools require a rollbar for the passenger.)

All the best,
Chris

[Naumoff]

Chris,
I would weld the extension to the roll bar as all of that can be installed in one piece. the the rearward brace can bolt on the same way the forward brace does. And of course the roll bar and brace is attached to the frame the same way as the existing roll bar.
It Doesn't meet full race specs for SCCA but will add the wanted protection for the passenger.

[cwareham]

Gotcha. I wonder if it would be possible to make the cross piece removable from the existing hoop....

Best,
c

[Russ Dickey]

Wow Tony that was one hard flip, I hope the guy is OK. What do you think happened? down shifted to the wrong gear? somehow the rear locked up and spun him around.

I have never seen that clip before, and it really made me think about running my car in any more club events! As Naumoff says, looks to me that he didn't match the revs during the downshift and that was what locked the rear wheels. These 90" wheelbases are totally unforgiving when you do that. I have made that mistake a couple of times, but thankfully was going slow enough that I was able to catch it before it came around.

What was even more scary about the video is that the car flipped without exiting the track, which I haven't seen before. Normally, the guys that I have seen go over (in club events) will slide off the track then have the tires catch in the soft ground. Yikes!

[cwareham]

Russ-

No kidding. I'd have thought that the car would just slide away as long as there wasn't something specific to keep it from sliding. Looks like maybe he was going fast enough to get some air under it before swinging the other way and going over? He was hauling *** through the few turns before the flip....much braver Cobra driver than I'll ever be ;^).

Best,

c

[brfutbrian]

juan, why is your wife so freaked out? do you drive like youre on a racetrack when she`s a passenger? no more danger than riding in any convertible.

tony, why so cryptic? i think most folks on here have heard the tale of that crash (off the internet). i heard what happened and who was involved at least three months ago. im willing to bet you have the right person in mind. i heard the culprit in this was cold tires more than anything else (if my memory hasnt failed). later, brian

[weaver]

He was a she!

Alan

[Naumoff]

Some other guys were analyzing the video and it looks like a combination of going into a slide and he had a low tire which rolled off and the rim caught the asphalt.
This one guy was a driver in the 70's. He sad tires will slide not bite into the asphalt but a rim will bite into the asphalt. Makes sense to me.
If you look at it closely you can see the one tire is flat when it hits the dirt.

Gotcha. I wonder if it would be possible to make the cross piece removable from the existing hoop....

Best,
c

It's possible but to make a strong removable connection at that point would take some engineering and I don't think it is worth the effort.
I am not an expert in roll bar design so it is just my opinion.

[brfutbrian]

He was a she!

Alan

and she wasnt the owner of the car. later, brian

[RJacobsen]

This is a picture of csx3178 it has a different design to the roll bar, I think it is forward braced as well.
http://www.uniquecobra.com/gallery/files/1/5/0/5/Shelbycsx3178.jpg

[Justin Upchurch]

I have to say that this accident scares me. I can't think of any reason this car should have gone over other than the center of gravity is just to high in the car. From what I can tell in this video the outside wheels are already up in the air when the car lands on one of the tires and continues to roll.
Alan, it sounds like you are familiar with this accident, is what happened similar to your crash?
Looks like Unique's roll bars are ok.

Justin

[ralphscott]

Based on Tony's observations I looked at the video on my big computer screen and it looks like the driver's side front tire is flat when the car flips on the asphalt. You can see it flapping when the car is sliding upside down. Hey it may just be my imagination but it looks that way. Rim biting into the asphat makes sense to me.

Ralph

[diegokid]

My eyes aren't the best anymore but on my computer screen it looks like there is a more than normal buildup of tire rubber on the track in that turn. Could that have been the reason for loss of control in the first place?

[RJacobsen]

OK here is my take on the flip. As the car entered the turn the rear tires started to skid (either from a miscalculated down shift or the wrong brake bias) causing the car to swap ends. At that point I don’t think that the front wheels ever locked up because as the car continued to spin the front wheels (that had been turned to the right to correct the skid) were now steering the car (now rolling backwards) from the back into a hard left turn. With the tires still rolling they had enough bite to flip the car. If you have ever driven something that steered from the rear (forklift maybe) you would know how unstable they can be. Just my 2 cents.

[Naumoff]

juan, why is your wife so freaked out? do you drive like youre on a racetrack when she`s a passenger? no more danger than riding in any convertible.

tony, why so cryptic? i think most folks on here have heard the tale of that crash (off the internet). i heard what happened and who was involved at least three months ago. im willing to bet you have the right person in mind. i heard the culprit in this was cold tires more than anything else (if my memory hasnt failed). later, brian

Hey Brian,
I came across this video and I am 99% sure of who's car it is but not 100% sure.
I talked to him on the phone about going to the Run 'N Gun in September and he told me his car had been wrecked at VIR with someone else driving. The driver is ok. I have not contacted him to confirm that this is his car.
I figured if I hadn't seen him post anything about it anywhere I just wouldn't mention his name.:)


Our cars are very predictable. A long sweeping turn on the street is very dangerous. It builds confidence and we tend to build speed a little too quick and when you run out of road and let off the throttle you unload the suspension and on a cold or damp pavement it is all over except for the crying.

As far as Juan's wife being freaked out I think that is just a natural reaction.
We guys are always seeking thrills. We can't help it.

[weaver]

When I flipped my car at Charlotte it was a combination of wrong tires, turned out to be auto cross tires and we were making 20 lap runs, when the tires went away in a turn it rolled off the rim, dug into the asphalt and flipped, the car slid about 100 ft on its roll bar, hit the 3rd turn wall upside down then slid down onto the apron. I walked to the ambulance on my own and only had a few cuts, I was sore for a week or two but was able to go to the Nascar race in Atlanta the following week, I was talking to Dale Earnhardt about it and he said I was only the 2nd car that had ever flipped at Charlotte, Geoff Bodine was the other. I still drive that car today.

Alan

[weaver]

In my post I said it was a combination of things but I forgot to say what, wrong tires and a loose nut behind the wheel, thay call me Crash Dummy.

Alan

[Naumoff]

In my post I said it was a combination of things but I forgot to say what, wrong tires and a loose nut behind the wheel, thay call me Crash Dummy.

Alan

You're like the guy who invented the bullet proof vest.
He shoots himself when he is wearing a vest to prove it is a good product.:)

[gasman]

These clips are the only reason I would like to sell my car. Without a hard top and full body roll cage, I just don't trust my surroundings enough to push the car to the limit.

Juan, I'm sure you don't push your car with the wife in it, or maybe you do and that is why she won't ride with you. At any rate, your car is too cool looking for a roll bar on the passenger side. Tell her you will think about her as you have a blast. ;)

[Naumoff]

Steve,
I can't push my F250 to the limit either but I am not going to sell it.:)

I think you are just having to much fun e30 spec racing.:shift:

[weaver]

Lots of chat on Club Cobra about whos car, what driver, why and did they survive.

Alan