Timing on a 428

[davids2toys]

I have a Motorcraft dist with electronic guts, it has no vac advance that I can see. The part number is 12127.
I put a strobe type timing light on it and it says 22 deg, at idle, engine warm.....how can this be?
Runs good, no pinging.
Also, it has a timing tape on the dampener

[Aggressor]

Most of the "FE" guys seem to like 34 to 36 degrees total. Check your total advance and base it on that. My engine seemed to like a bit more advance so I used to run about 38 degrees total. That was 12 degrees initial and 26 mechanical. 22 degrees seems a bit stiff for idle unless you're idling at 1900 RPM with your mechanical advance half in. Also make sure your timing marks from tape and/or damper are lined up and correct.

-Geary

[davids2toys]

Still trusting the timing tape that is on the balancer, I have 22 deg initial and 18 mechanical, total of forty. I am idling at 900

[eliminator]

I know what I would do with that distributor.......eBay!!

Then go with the MSD Pro Billet:banana:

[JeepSnake]

I am a firm believer in the Ronald Reagan ignition timing philosophy:

Trust but verify!

If YOU didn't install the timing tape...
If YOU didn't install the timing pointer...
If YOU don't absolutely, positively know for sure that both of those are correct beyond any shadow of a doubt...

Then turn the engine by hand and verify TDC!!!

The engine in our 289 car was professionally built, dyno tuned, etc. etc. (I've got all the build sheets and dyno paperwork from multiple dyno pulls.) When I put the light on it, my initial advance showed a perfect 14 degrees BTDC.

Yet, dialing in more and more advance made the engine happier and happier! After going through the TDC verification process, I discovered that the timing pointer and marks were off 18 degrees. In other words, instead of having 14 degrees advance at idle, the car was actually running with an initial timing setting of 4 degrees AFTER TDC!

[davids2toys]

This was my thinking from the beginning.
What would be the easiest way to check this out without removing the valve covers.
I also don't think their is anything wrong with my distributer, but I have always heard great things about the MSD, how much is that bad boy?

[pbrown]

I agree with Zach. you need to get a piston stop tool and verify TDC. It's not hard.

Tell us more about the engine. What is the compression ratio and cam specs? This information will dictate your initial timing.

Get a good distributer. The MSD Pro-Billet 8594 is a good unit. You'll need an ignition box as well. Get the new MSD 6AL-2 unless you already have something.

[davids2toys]

I agree with Zach. you need to get a piston stop tool and verify TDC. It's not hard.

Tell us more about the engine. What is the compression ratio and cam specs? This information will dictate your initial timing.

Get a good distributer. The MSD Pro-Billet 8594 is a good unit. You'll need an ignition box as well. Get the new MSD 6AL-2 unless you already have something.
Well, I already have the MSD box.
Don't know that much about the motor, all I have is the invoice from Ford High Performance Exchange out of Melvill NY, I think they may be out of buisiness, this was back in 93.
It says.030 over428, Police interceptor block,forged pistons w moly rings, police intercepter rods resized and fitted with heavy duty ARP rod bolts, high perf hydrauklic cam 314 duration, 513 lift, Cobra jet high perf heads with competition valve job. electronic full centrifugal advance distributor mated with MSD-6AL electronic high perf module and MSD coil, it has an aluminum dual plain manifold. I do not know the compression ratio, it is nothing crazy, I assure you:D

[JeepSnake]

No need to remove the valve covers. All you need is a piston stop tool and a timing pointer.

Disconnect battery cable before beginning work. You must be absolutely sure that there is no way you can accidentally try to start the car! (In addition, I gave the keys to my wife, and showed her the piston stop tool. She did not give the keys back to me until I placed the piston stop tool back in her hand after completing the job. Never can be too safe when you go sticking a bolt into the combustion chamber!)

Remove #1 spark plug and install the piston stop (see Summit, or make your own by hollowing out a spark plug and running a bolt through it).

BY HAND rotate the engine clockwise until the piston stop stops you. Put a mark on the harmonic balancer where the timing pointer is pointing to.

BY HAND rotate the engine counterclockwise until the piston stop again stops you. Put another mark on the harmonic balancer where the timing pointer is pointing to.

Now, using a sewing-type measure tape, find the mid point on the harmonic damper between the two marks you made. That point is your true Top Dead Center.

[pbrown]

Here is how I do it. Turn the engine clockwise to just past where you think TDC is. Say about 20 degrees give or take a few. Mark the damper.

Then install the piston stop and turn it in until the stop just touches the piston.

Then turn the engine clockwise all the way around until the piston hits the stop. Mark the damper.

TDC is the center point between the marks.

I do it this way to avoid turning the engine backwards. The damper bolt can come loose when turning backwards.

I also pull all the plugs to keep from fighting the compression.

[davids2toys]

Great info, a few questions though.

1) When you say clockwise, where are you looking, front to rear, or rear to front?
2) How do you know how far to scew in the stop or bolt?
3) Is it important to know if you are on the intake stroke or compression stroke?

[pbrown]

1) When you say clockwise, where are you looking, front to rear, or rear to front?


Sorry. From the front.



2) How do you know how far to scew in the stop or bolt?


Turn the bolt in until it hits the piston. If the bolt bottoms out, the piston is too far down in the bore. Start over.



3) Is it important to know if you are on the intake stroke or compression stroke?


It doesn't matter.

[davids2toys]

Sorry. From the front.



Turn the bolt in until it hits the piston. If the bolt bottoms out, the piston is too far down in the bore. Start over.



It doesn't matter.
1) cool

2)Then bolt length would mean a lot, no?

[JeepSnake]

Yes, bolt length does mean a lot. I bought the Summit TDC tool, and was surprised to discover that the bolt portion on it wouldn't contact the piston in my 351 at all! I had to get a longer bolt out of the old coffee can and use it in the tool.

Patrick, I like the way you avoid turning the engine backward.

For those times when you just can't avoid turning it backward for some reason, I use one of those Craftsman rubber-strap wrenches (sort of like an oversized strap-type oil filter wrench, but with a heavy rubber strap) on the crank pulley.

[pbrown]

For those times when you just can't avoid turning it backward for some reason, I use one of those Craftsman rubber-strap wrenches (sort of like an oversized strap-type oil filter wrench, but with a heavy rubber strap) on the crank pulley.

That's a good tip. I have a car with only 1/8" of room from the pully to the electric fan. This will work well there.